Question:

6/23/05: Today`s question is being brought to you by our very own Tono?  :) Are you able to change/repair a flat tire?  Would you do it, or would you have someone else do it?  (Includes bicycles)

I always fix/change mine myself.  For me, it’s easier to do it myself then go through the hassle of calling someone else do it. Long ago I had a streak of flat tires, probably about 12 in one year!!!   At home (and sometimes in the car or truck), I always have a kit to repair them.  At home I have a air compressor to fill it again, and on the road I sometimes have a little one that takes 20 minutes to fill the tire.  Lots of times I’ve repaired and filled the tire without ever taking it off the vehicle. I don’t recall the last "flat" I had, but I have had a couple slow leaks in the past year, including two on the lawn mower.  I also repaired one for a friend a month or so ago. I’ve even stopped to change the tire for a stranger.  Of course she was quite a looker!!  ;-) Tono — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

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I surely can, and have done. Cars, not bikes. The key is having (1) a good jack and (2) patience. Deirdre Today`s question is being brought to you by our very own Tono?  :) Are you able to change/repair a flat tire?  Would you do it, or would you have someone else do it?  (Includes bicycles)

– The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

6/23/05: Today`s question is being brought to you by our very own Tono?  :) Are you able to change/repair a flat tire?  Would you do it, or would you have someone else do it?  (Includes bicycles) Jackie ~*~I’ve been on an emotional roller coaster lately.  The other <BR day my mood ring exploded~*~ —

No way can I change a flat tire, bicycle or otherwise.  That’s why I carry my AAA card. Sally — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

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I surely can, and have done. Cars, not bikes. The key is having (1) a good jack and (2) patience. Deirdre

Yes, a good jack.  Remember bumper jacks?  Wow, those things were really dangerous!  I think Chrysler/Plymouth had the worst ones.  I had a car fall off one of those more than once! Tono Today`s question is being brought to you by our very own Tono?  :) Are you able to change/repair a flat tire?  Would you do it, or would you have someone else do it?  (Includes bicycles)

– The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

::Are you able to change/repair a flat tire?  Would you do it, or would ::you have someone else do it?  (Includes bicycles) LOL! I don`t know how…..so I would have to ask someone else to do it Jackie ~*~I’ve been on an emotional roller coaster lately.  The other <BR day my mood ring exploded~*~ — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

6/23/05: Today`s question is being brought to you by our very own Tono?  :) Are you able to change/repair a flat tire?  Would you do it, or would you have someone else do it?  (Includes bicycles)

Yes, re changing car tyres but it has become increasingly difficult since the advent of electric machines to screw on wheel nuts. I chipped a diamond ring changing a tyre in 1979.  Meryl — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

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Yes, a good jack.  Remember bumper jacks?  Wow, those things were really dangerous!  I think Chrysler/Plymouth had the worst ones.  I had a car fall off one of those more than once!

my uncle many many years ago had a car fall of the jack and onto him. it crushed his collar bone and my grandmother (his mother) couldn’t get the car off him. She yelled for help and a neighbour came over and in one of those rare moments of superhuman strength was somehow able to lift the front of the car with his hands just far enough for my uncle to get out. lucky fella hey. I rarely stick my head under a car these days, must be getting older or lazier, but sometimes it freaks me out when I think of the possibilities. greg — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

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It would depend on how well I felt. If I wasn’t feeling very well I would call out NRMA (our local atomobile emergency people). But if I were feeling OK I would change it myself. When I was younger and raced ouround the streets on a bicycle, I would do all of the repairs myself. Change/grease bearings, replace/repair tyres, straighten bent rims (mostly unsuccessful though). I had lots of fun working on my bike. greg… 6/23/05: Today`s question is being brought to you by our very own Tono?  :) Are you able to change/repair a flat tire?  Would you do it, or would you have someone else do it?  (Includes bicycles) Jackie ~*~I’ve been on an emotional roller coaster lately.  The other <BR day my mood ring exploded~*~

– The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Yes, a good jack.  Remember bumper jacks?  Wow, those things were really dangerous!  I think Chrysler/Plymouth had the worst ones.  I had a car fall off one of those more than once! my uncle many many years ago had a car fall of the jack and onto him. it crushed his collar bone and my grandmother (his mother) couldn’t get the car off him. She yelled for help and a neighbour came over and in one of those rare moments of superhuman strength was somehow able to lift the front of the car with his hands just far enough for my uncle to get out. lucky fella hey. I rarely stick my head under a car these days, must be getting older or lazier, but sometimes it freaks me out when I think of the possibilities.

I wouldn’t limit it to older or lazier, how about smarter? Personally, I use jack stands if I’m going under the car.  And I lower the car onto the stands.  When simply changing a tire, my old neighbor used to come over and point to the jack stands just a few feet away and ask why I wasn’t using them.  He was a great guy.  I just never use them for changing a tire, and I keep my body positioned where if the car fell, it wouldn’t hit me. Tono — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Are you able to change/repair a flat tire?  Would you do it, or would you have someone else do it?  (Includes bicycles)

   My only form of wheels is a bicycle. I fix most things on it, especially the tyres. The way I ride it, it tends to need a lot of fixing, too.    When I used to hang around with a friend who was something of a motorhead, I used to help him change his tyres. Never had to repair a flat though. REALESTATE: biggest buy/rent/share listings   http://ninemsn.realestate.com.au — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

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6/23/05: Today`s question is being brought to you by our very own Tono?  :) Are you able to change/repair a flat tire?  Would you do it, or would you have someone else do it?  (Includes bicycles) Jackie ~*~I’ve been on an emotional roller coaster lately.  The other <BR day my mood ring exploded~*~

Yes.  I would try to get someone else to do it first, though . Dawn — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

6/23/05: Today`s question is being brought to you by our very own Tono?  :) Are you able to change/repair a flat tire?  Would you do it, or would you have someone else do it?  (Includes bicycles) Jackie ~*~I’ve been on an emotional roller coaster lately.  The other <BR day my mood ring exploded~*~

If it can go flat, I have had it happen, and yes, can do. — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – 6/23/05: Today`s question is being brought to you by our very own Tono?  :) Are you able to change/repair a flat tire?  Would you do it, or would you have someone else do it?  (Includes bicycles) Jackie ~*~I’ve been on an emotional roller coaster lately.  The other <BR day my mood ring exploded~*~ Of course I know how to change/repair a tire, call the service station and ante up the cash.

LOL!!!! Tono — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Jacqueline  wrote : Are you able to change/repair a flat tire?  

        Yes.   Would you do it, or would you have someone else do it?  (Includes bicycles)

        I have done it on cars quite a number of times.  It’s more of a pain on bicycles; I’ve done it , but that I might have someone else do. Dennis — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

6/23/05: Today`s question is being brought to you by our very own Tono?  :) Are you able to change/repair a flat tire?  Would you do it, or would you have someone else do it?  (Includes bicycles) Jackie ~*~I’ve been on an emotional roller coaster lately.  The other <BR day my mood ring exploded~*~

Of course I know how to change/repair a tire, call the service station and ante up the cash. Jess — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

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Are you able to change/repair a flat tire?

***No… Would you do it, or would you have someone else do it?  (Includes bicycles) ***Hubby is responsible for all car maintenance excluding putting gas in the car. smiles, ELise Jackie ~*~I’ve been on an emotional roller coaster lately.  The other <BR day my mood ring exploded~*~ — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

– The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

6/23/05: Today`s question is being brought to you by our very own Tono?  :) Are you able to change/repair a flat tire?  Would you do it, or would you have someone else do it?  (Includes bicycles) Jackie ~*~I’ve been on an emotional roller coaster lately.  The other <BR day my mood ring exploded~*~ — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

I think I changed a tire once in my whole life.  LOL  It was on a VW, for practice. Love, Di

6/23/05: Today`s question is being brought to you by our very own Tono?  :) Are you able to change/repair a flat tire?  Would you do it, or would you have someone else do it?  (Includes bicycles) Jackie

– The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Question:

A question I’ve pondered for a while, sparked by the thread on the QM2…. Are turbines ever used for rail locos?  It seems a really natural fit:   – Locos already pay the weight penalty for the generator/motor set (to convert hi-speed, low-torque engine to traction work)   – They spend a lot of their lives running at fixed moderate load (clickety-clack all the way to Brisbane) so the efficieny of a turbine seems logical.  But all the locos I’ve seen are deisel electrics….

Response:

A question I’ve pondered for a while, sparked by the thread on the QM2…. Are turbines ever used for rail locos?

They have been. Some notable examples were Union Pacific’s 8500hp gas turbines (which were well known for shattering windows), Sikorsky TurboTrain, prototype British Rail APT and prototype French TGV (which had TURMO X engines, same as the Super Frelon). Gas turbines fell out of favour after the oil crisis. A recent development is the Bombardier JetTrain which has a PW150. Cheers David

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The americans tried gas turbine powered locomotives in the 70’s but they were unsuccessful. I think noise and smoke emissions made them unpopular, in addition to economic and technical issues. Incidently GM ran extensive research on turbine powered cars in the late 60’s but they couldn’t make them work as well as piston engines either. Mal

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – A question I’ve pondered for a while, sparked by the thread on the QM2…. Are turbines ever used for rail locos?  It seems a really natural fit:   – Locos already pay the weight penalty for the generator/motor set (to convert hi-speed, low-torque engine to traction work)   – They spend a lot of their lives running at fixed moderate load (clickety-clack all the way to Brisbane) so the efficieny of a turbine seems logical.  But all the locos I’ve seen are deisel electrics….

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The americans tried gas turbine powered locomotives in the 70’s but they were unsuccessful. I think noise and smoke emissions made them unpopular, in addition to economic and technical issues. Incidently GM ran extensive research on turbine powered cars in the late 60’s but they couldn’t make them work as well as piston engines either. Mal

And trucks too I think. One of the big issues was getting rid of the heat… /viz

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Try ‘coal’ ‘turbine’ ‘Canada’

Response:

A question I’ve pondered for a while, sparked by the thread on the QM2…. Are turbines ever used for rail locos?  It seems a really natural fit:   – Locos already pay the weight penalty for the generator/motor set (to convert hi-speed, low-torque engine to traction work)   – They spend a lot of their lives running at fixed moderate load (clickety-clack all the way to Brisbane) so the efficieny of a turbine seems logical.  But all the locos I’ve seen are deisel electrics….

You pay a lot of fuel and $$ for a moderate weight saving. And as that reduces the axle loading, and thus the max Tractive Effort, that `saving’ is poisoned as well The really nice units are some of the european ones that are a combined diesel-electric and pantograph electric set. They run from the overhead normaly, but can use the on board set for peaking on departure, running on sections without power or with power off for servicing etc, and can feed back into the overhead to load share at peak times. — Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd., +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.                                              West Australia 6076 comp.os.vms,- The Older, Grumpier Slashdot Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it’s all half baked. EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.

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The americans tried gas turbine powered locomotives in the 70’s but they were unsuccessful.

Try the 50s. Technically they were successful, but they were an economic disaster and the oil shock finally killed them. They were also so loud they were well known for shattering windows. Cheers David

Response:

A question I’ve pondered for a while, sparked by the thread on the QM2…. Are turbines ever used for rail locos?  It seems a really natural fit:  - Locos already pay the weight penalty for the generator/motor set (to convert hi-speed, low-torque engine to traction work)  - They spend a lot of their lives running at fixed moderate load (clickety-clack all the way to Brisbane) so the efficieny of a turbine seems logical.  But all the locos I’ve seen are deisel electrics….

Not that I know. In a loco, weight tends to be an advantage. Tractive power is very sensitive to how much weight you can put on the traction wheels. Diesel electrics have some very attractive characteristics. You can run the Diesel at essentially fixed RPM if you want (The torque requirements will change substantially as you up the alternator however). on a horsepower per $ basis, turbines are also far more expensive than Diesels. You can buy a whole truck with the Diesel attached for less than Turbine with comparable horsepower will cost! AC electric motors have some very usual characteristics. By altering the rotor resistance you can alter the speed torque characteristic. (Servo motors tend to have the resistor fix, so they always has max torque at zero rpm).  So with a big external rotor resistor (and I’ve seen some BIG ones on switching locos), in place, you have the peak torque available at ZERO RPM…  There is a large efficiency penalty to pay for that, and once you reach reasonable speed, a contactor shorts out the external rotor resistor so you can be the best efficiency, and best torque at speed that is more attractive for ‘cruise’.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – A question I’ve pondered for a while, sparked by the thread on the QM2…. Are turbines ever used for rail locos?  It seems a really natural fit:  - Locos already pay the weight penalty for the generator/motor set (to convert hi-speed, low-torque engine to traction work)  - They spend a lot of their lives running at fixed moderate load (clickety-clack all the way to Brisbane) so the efficieny of a turbine seems logical.  But all the locos I’ve seen are deisel electrics…. Not that I know. In a loco, weight tends to be an advantage. Tractive power is very sensitive to how much weight you can put on the traction wheels. Diesel electrics have some very attractive characteristics. You can run the Diesel at essentially fixed RPM if you want (The torque requirements will change substantially as you up the alternator however). on a horsepower per $ basis, turbines are also far more expensive than Diesels. You can buy a whole truck with the Diesel attached for less than Turbine with comparable horsepower will cost! AC electric motors have some very usual characteristics. By altering the rotor resistance you can alter the speed torque characteristic. (Servo motors tend to have the resistor fix, so they always has max torque at zero rpm).  So with a big external rotor resistor (and I’ve seen some BIG ones on switching locos), in place, you have the peak torque available at ZERO RPM…  There is a large efficiency penalty to pay for that, and once you reach reasonable speed, a contactor shorts out the external rotor resistor so you can be the best efficiency, and best torque at speed that is more attractive for ‘cruise’.

Some extreme turbine applications… Turbine tractor: http://www.antiquefarm.org/news_main.html#turbine%20tractor http://www.tractorpulling.com/report/2000/eext/ (near the bottom) Check out the scooter: http://geetel.net/~turbojer/gallery3.htm /viz

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viz <*nospam*.pacific.net.au writes: Some extreme turbine applications…

`Extreme’ is the twin jet Cri-Cri… — Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd., +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.                                              West Australia 6076 comp.os.vms,- The Older, Grumpier Slashdot Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it’s all half baked. EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.

Response:

The americans tried gas turbine powered locomotives in the 70’s but they were unsuccessful. I think noise and smoke emissions made them unpopular, in addition to economic and technical issues. Incidently GM ran extensive research on turbine powered cars in the late 60’s but they couldn’t make them work as well as piston engines either.

As I remember it, the major problem with gas turbine powered land vehicles is the turbine’s dislike of being throttled through its rev range which makes the beast much less fuel efficient than a reciprocating engine doing the same job. Chrysler tried a turbine powered car way back in the distant past, 1960-70 but fuel economy was a huge problem. I don’t claim to be a turbine expert but that’s my limited understanding of the problems. Best places in Australia for gas turbine locos would be on long mostly level running with very few stops, ie, Nullarbor Plain or up the centre from Adelaide to Darwin. Googling for gas turbine locos should show some interesting pics, including one, if it’s still around, of what looks like a conventional diesel electric loco with a fuel tanker hung off the back. A question I’ve pondered for a while, sparked by the thread on the QM2…. Are turbines ever used for rail locos?  It seems a really natural fit:   – Locos already pay the weight penalty for the generator/motor set (to convert hi-speed, low-torque engine to traction work)   – They spend a lot of their lives running at fixed moderate load (clickety-clack all the way to Brisbane)

Actually, they don’t. On the coastal rail there is very regular opening and closing of the throttle. On a heavy freight train the power runs through the full range of full dynamic brake to full power. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – so the efficieny of a turbine seems logical.  But all the locos I’ve seen are deisel electrics….

Response:

viz said…. And trucks too I think. One of the big issues was getting rid of the heat…

And efficiency. Our PW FT4s that are used for power generation are about 26% efficient. Internal combustion engines are around the 35% mark or thereabouts. So, there’s a lot of heat going up the stack….

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viz said…. And trucks too I think. One of the big issues was getting rid of the heat… And efficiency. Our PW FT4s that are used for power generation are about 26% efficient. Internal combustion engines are around the 35% mark or thereabouts. So, there’s a lot of heat going up the stack….

As a rule of thumb:- from 100% energy available from the fuel…… 33% useful power 33% out the exhaust 33% lost in cooling for ALL ic engines.

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A question I’ve pondered for a while, sparked by the thread on the QM2…. Are turbines ever used for rail locos?  [...]

On first visiting England I remember seeing at least one of the two GWR gas turbine locos on the Bristol-London run. Made a very distinctive noise, I can tell you! See: http://www.scienceandsociety.co.uk/results.asp?image=10321289&wwwflag… and one of them provided the vehicle for testing an electric system: http://www.therailwaycentre.com/Pages%20Loco/Recognition%20loco/Illus… Mike.

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RT said…. And efficiency. Our PW FT4s that are used for power generation are about 26% efficient. As a rule of thumb:- from 100% energy available from the fuel…… 33% useful power 33% out the exhaust 33% lost in cooling for ALL ic engines.

Including our FT4s? If so, then they’re the exception to your rule. Our engineers have calculated this, particularly as it’s somewhat expensive to burn gas. We burn X terajoules of gas for 50 MW of electrical energy. I forget actual numbers. But at best it’s around 26%. And what’s more, there are other simple cycle gas turbines being installed around the place. At this rate, they’ll consume what gas reserves we have within 2 years.

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – RT said…. And efficiency. Our PW FT4s that are used for power generation are about 26% efficient. As a rule of thumb:- from 100% energy available from the fuel…… 33% useful power 33% out the exhaust 33% lost in cooling for ALL ic engines. Including our FT4s? If so, then they’re the exception to your rule. Our engineers have calculated this, particularly as it’s somewhat expensive to burn gas. We burn X terajoules of gas for 50 MW of electrical energy. I forget actual numbers. But at best it’s around 26%. And what’s more, there are other simple cycle gas turbines being installed around the place. At this rate, they’ll consume what gas reserves we have within 2 years.

I DID say ‘rule of thumb’  -:)   … and 26-33%  is 7% difference

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -RT said…. And efficiency. Our PW FT4s that are used for power generation are about 26% efficient. As a rule of thumb:- from 100% energy available from the fuel…… 33% useful power 33% out the exhaust 33% lost in cooling for ALL ic engines. Including our FT4s? If so, then they’re the exception to your rule. Our engineers have calculated this, particularly as it’s somewhat expensive to burn gas. We burn X terajoules of gas for 50 MW of electrical energy. I forget actual numbers. But at best it’s around 26%. And what’s more, there are other simple cycle gas turbines being installed around the place. At this rate, they’ll consume what gas reserves we have within 2 years.

The attractiveness of gas turbine electric generation centers around two issues.  They have low installed per KW capacity price compared to a steam plant, however the cost of X terajoules of Coal tends to be a lot lower than natural gas,  and these things tend to be able to run for years at a time (and may take year to build initially). The second issue is spin up. The one and only Big Allis (a 1000mw steam unit  (single alternator) at Consolidated Edision in New York) takes about 12 hours (That’s reason there is only one of them)  to go from cold start to rated output. That is one of the reasons it takes so long to get the lights back on when they go out in New York City. Much of the capacity is in very large units, and between the size and high synchronous reactance, it takes a long time to get them spun up and delivering full output.  Many Gas turbines can go from cold start to full load  in less than 20 minutes, so they often used as ‘peaking’ or topping units, that provide power only during periods of peak demand, at other times, the steam driven units have much lower per kw operating costs.

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matt said…. The attractiveness of gas turbine electric generation centers around two issues.  They have low installed per KW capacity price compared to a steam plant, however the cost of X terajoules of Coal tends to be a lot lower than natural gas,

Here in Southern Australia, it’s around $100 MW/HR to run a simple cycle gas turbine versus around $8 MW/HR for brown coal (lignite) steam The second issue is spin up. The one and only Big Allis (a 1000mw steam unit  (single alternator) at Consolidated Edision in New York) takes about 12 hours (That’s reason there is only one of them)  to go from cold start to rated output. That is one of the reasons it takes so long to get the lights back on when they go out in New York City. Much of the capacity is in very large units, and between the size and high synchronous reactance, it takes a long time to get them spun up and delivering full output.

Depends on the machine. Our sets, 500 MW Hitachi clones of GE sets, take about 10-12 hours from first fire to full load when cold. A hot start following a turbine trip or whatever, is around 3 hrs. Next door, they run 500 MW Brown Boveri sets and KWU/Siemens sets. They take about 4 hrs from cold to full load. Many Gas turbines can go from cold start to full load  in less than 20 minutes,

Our PW FT4Cs run up to 50 MW from cold in around 8 mins. IF they don’t trip on us – usually it’s a surge, or a sensor problem, such as failed lightoff. It’s old gear. Mechanically, they’re fine, and that’s surprising given that they run the equivalent of emergency take-off power for many hours at a time. It’s just all the instrumentation that’s hanging off them that’s stuffed. It’s cool to look in the engine enclosure when they’re on full load to see the hot section glowing red, and seeing the shadows of the combustor

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It’s cool to look in the engine enclosure when they’re on full load to see the hot section glowing red, and seeing the shadows of the combustor

You might remember the placards that were fitted to the Cessna 400 series when the blankets were talken off the turbos.  The passengers in the appropriate row could then see the cherry red glow of the turbo turbine casing thru the gills on the top of the cowls

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Depends on the machine. Our sets, 500 MW Hitachi clones of GE sets, take about 10-12 hours from first fire to full load when cold. A hot start following a turbine trip or whatever, is around 3 hrs. Next door, they run 500 MW Brown Boveri sets and KWU/Siemens sets. They take about 4 hrs from cold to full load.

That’s for your gen sets? with the boilers already (mostly) up to working pressure? Or total cold, light it up to online? — Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd., +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.                                              West Australia 6076 comp.os.vms,- The Older, Grumpier Slashdot Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it’s all half baked. EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.

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The second issue is spin up. The one and only Big Allis (a 1000mw steam unit (single alternator) at Consolidated Edision in New York) takes about 12 hours (That’s reason there is only one of them) to go from cold start to rated output.

That is Fast for a big coal plant. I saw a figure in the IEEE years ago of 4 DAYS from cold to online. It was given as a typical number for a big base load plant. If you think planning and pre-flighting a 744 is complex, well you ain’t seen nothing! …  Many Gas turbines can go from cold start to full load in less than 20 minutes, so they often used as ‘peaking’ or topping units, that provide power only during periods of peak demand, at other times, the steam driven units have much lower per kw operating costs.

Gas turbine plant can also shed load very quickly, and that can be essential to stop your grid collapsing when you have bad fault transients. They are wonderfull spinning reserve, but the cost is a killer at low load. — Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd., +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.                                              West Australia 6076 comp.os.vms,- The Older, Grumpier Slashdot Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it’s all half baked. EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.

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That’s for your gen sets? with the boilers already (mostly) up to working pressure? Or total cold, light it up to online?

Cold start, cold boiler, cold turbine. Hot start, hot everything. Our boilers can fire up to temp far quicker than the turbines can accept the rate of rise when cold. When hot, it’s a different matter. Fire like buggery, generate heaps of steam flow and go for it. Anyway, back on topic (yeah, I can you you fellas yawning from here), the Qantas staff cutbacks would just about be getting the employees nervous. I wonder how many pilots will be let go? Natural attrition, forced/voluntary redundancies (I’ve love to see the VDP that a senior 747 captain would get….)

Response:

Depends on the machine. Our sets, 500 MW Hitachi clones of GE sets, take about 10-12 hours from first fire to full load when cold. A hot start following a turbine trip or whatever, is around 3 hrs. Next door, they run 500 MW Brown Boveri sets and KWU/Siemens sets. They take about 4 hrs from cold to full load.

In my youth I deal with units that had a High Pressue and Low pressure turbine with 95MW on each. They were coal fired (although they were started up on Propane, which was used until there was sufficient steam pressue to start the pumps, and the PC (pulverised coal) feed  going, and they could go from cold to full load in under 3 hours. At the other end of the spectrum were some 125mw gas turbines, and they’d go from push the button to rated power in about 17 mins. That was in the late 1960’s… The killer on the big units is the synchronous reactance, and that’s simply a fact of life. It isn’t getting them spinning that kills, it is getting them to pick up the load that is the problem.So once you get it loaded up, you try real hard to keep it that way. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Many Gas turbines can go from cold start to full load  in less than 20 minutes, Our PW FT4Cs run up to 50 MW from cold in around 8 mins. IF they don’t trip on us – usually it’s a surge, or a sensor problem, such as failed lightoff. It’s old gear. Mechanically, they’re fine, and that’s surprising given that they run the equivalent of emergency take-off power for many hours at a time. It’s just all the instrumentation that’s hanging off them that’s stuffed.

Response:

Martin Taylor said Depends on the machine. Our sets, 500 MW Hitachi clones of GE sets, take about 10-12 hours from first fire to full load when cold. A hot start following a turbine trip or whatever, is around 3 hrs. Next door, they run 500 MW Brown Boveri sets and KWU/Siemens sets. They take about 4 hrs from cold to full load.

why do they take so long to come back "on-line" or full generation capacity? Do turbines in navy ships have the same run-up times? Dear Santa:  http://www.diamond-air.at/en/products/D-JET/index.htm Ben Matthes. Canberra ACT Australia. "Canberra – a good sheep station gone bad" Source unknown, but I like it:-)

Response:

matt said…. The killer on the big units is the synchronous reactance, and that’s simply a fact of life. It isn’t getting them spinning that kills, it is getting them to pick up the load that is the problem.So once you get it loaded up, you try real hard to keep it that way.

Shit, that’s easy. Pour in the steam, you make the megawatts. Sort of like opening the throttle on your trusty P&W to get more thrust… — Everyone has a photographic memory. Some just don’t have film.

Response:

Question:

| Could someone please tell me how I can contact someone in the Chrysler | Corporation about a complaint with one of their cars? | | There is no such company as "Chrysler Corporation". Dan, sometimes your responses are not very helpful.  ;-)

That’s true.

Response:

| Could someone please tell me how I can contact someone in the Chrysler | Corporation about a complaint with one of their cars? | | There is no such company as "Chrysler Corporation". Dan, sometimes your responses are not very helpful.  ;-) That’s true.

Thanks for the information.  I’m out of town and my manual is in my car at the dealership to be repaired. I forgot about the name change to Damlier Chyrsler.

Response:

800# in your manual

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Could someone please tell me how I can contact someone in the Chrysler Corporation about a complaint with one of their cars?  Thanks for your help.

Response:

Could someone please tell me how I can contact someone in the Chrysler Corporation about a complaint with one of their cars?

There is no such company as "Chrysler Corporation".

Response:

| | Could someone please tell me how I can contact someone in the Chrysler | Corporation about a complaint with one of their cars? | | There is no such company as "Chrysler Corporation". Dan, sometimes your responses are not very helpful.  ;-) The owners manual has the product/service grievance process outlined as well as your legal rights and the process to exercise those as well (if necessary) BTW: it’s Daimler-Chrysler.

Response:

Could someone please tell me how I can contact someone in the Chrysler Corporation about a complaint with one of their cars?  Thanks for your help.

Response:

Could someone please tell me how I can contact someone in the Chrysler Corporation about a complaint with one of their cars?  Thanks for your help.

Response:

800# in your manual

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Could someone please tell me how I can contact someone in the Chrysler Corporation about a complaint with one of their cars?  Thanks for your help.

Response:

Could someone please tell me how I can contact someone in the Chrysler Corporation about a complaint with one of their cars?

There is no such company as "Chrysler Corporation".

Response:

| | Could someone please tell me how I can contact someone in the Chrysler | Corporation about a complaint with one of their cars? | | There is no such company as "Chrysler Corporation". Dan, sometimes your responses are not very helpful.  ;-) The owners manual has the product/service grievance process outlined as well as your legal rights and the process to exercise those as well (if necessary) BTW: it’s Daimler-Chrysler.

Response:

| Could someone please tell me how I can contact someone in the Chrysler | Corporation about a complaint with one of their cars? | | There is no such company as "Chrysler Corporation". Dan, sometimes your responses are not very helpful.  ;-)

That’s true.

Response:

| Could someone please tell me how I can contact someone in the Chrysler | Corporation about a complaint with one of their cars? | | There is no such company as "Chrysler Corporation". Dan, sometimes your responses are not very helpful.  ;-) That’s true.

Thanks for the information.  I’m out of town and my manual is in my car at the dealership to be repaired. I forgot about the name change to Damlier Chyrsler.

Response:

Question:

Not sure if this applies to the 1991 New Yorker you have, but after looking at a bunch of CC vans in the boneyard (and mine as well) I note that the "cable" is nothing more than a piece of nylon-fiber type of "string" that I have seen in fishing shops. Cheap. The K-cars have the same "cable" too. But then check with your dealer as to their price. Sometimes the CC price is worth the PITA factor of crafting a replacement yourself… Ken Canada – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The cable broke on my 1991 Chrysler New Yorker Gear Shift inidcator. Haven’t been able to find a new one via after market – does anyone have any idea what one will cost from a dealer, or if there is a good aftermarked cable out there?

Response:

The cable broke on my 1991 Chrysler New Yorker Gear Shift inidcator. Haven’t been able to find a new one via after market – does anyone have any idea what one will cost from a dealer, or if there is a good aftermarked cable out there?

Response:

The cable broke on my 1991 Chrysler New Yorker Gear Shift inidcator. Haven’t been able to find a new one via after market – does anyone have any idea what one will cost from a dealer, or if there is a good aftermarked cable out there?

There is no aftermarket cable. The way to find out what it will cost from the dealer is to call and ask. Good used ones can also be found by the thousands in wrecking yards.

Response:

The cable broke on my 1991 Chrysler New Yorker Gear Shift inidcator. Haven’t been able to find a new one via after market – does anyone have any idea what one will cost from a dealer, or if there is a good aftermarked cable out there?

Response:

The cable broke on my 1991 Chrysler New Yorker Gear Shift inidcator. Haven’t been able to find a new one via after market – does anyone have any idea what one will cost from a dealer, or if there is a good aftermarked cable out there?

There is no aftermarket cable. The way to find out what it will cost from the dealer is to call and ask. Good used ones can also be found by the thousands in wrecking yards.

Response:

Not sure if this applies to the 1991 New Yorker you have, but after looking at a bunch of CC vans in the boneyard (and mine as well) I note that the "cable" is nothing more than a piece of nylon-fiber type of "string" that I have seen in fishing shops. Cheap. The K-cars have the same "cable" too. But then check with your dealer as to their price. Sometimes the CC price is worth the PITA factor of crafting a replacement yourself… Ken Canada – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The cable broke on my 1991 Chrysler New Yorker Gear Shift inidcator. Haven’t been able to find a new one via after market – does anyone have any idea what one will cost from a dealer, or if there is a good aftermarked cable out there?

Response:

Question:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Geez, Nomen, why just the "high end models"??  They can afford the speeding tickets more than the poor folks can.  The carmakers should put your idea into ALL new cars. Arthur Test your speedometer for accuracy with a stopwatch while driving a steady-state speed between mile markers.  Mine reads 5 mph slow, making it a real ticket-getter. With electronic speedometers now in current  use, the manufacturer could incorporate a simple, user calibration feature.  This feature would be accessed by the driver. Given todays digital electronics, the error induced in the speedometer comes not from the instrument, but from the varying rolling radius of the driving wheel.  In fact, additional error is introduced by the differential gear as it accommodates driving wheels which may differ slightly in rolling radius.  A simple calibration feature could reduce speedometer error to no more than 0.5% with negligible cost to the manufacturer. Here’s how it can be done: The only parameter that need be measured by a speedometer calibration microprocessor is the number of wheel revolutions per mile.  Currently, this is an estimate based upon the installed tire-wheel combo.  Revs/mile can be counted by the transmission with a little input from the driver. All he needs to do is to press a button at the start of a mile marker and again as he crosses the next mile marker.  For more accuracy, one, two, up to five mile markers can be used and the computer will recognize the larger intervals and calculate accordingly.  The speed of the car, or speed variations, during measurement is irrelevant.  The computer just needs to calibrate the wheel radius, as the rest of the speedometer calculation is a simple algebraic calculation based on time, which the microprocesser is accurate to microseconds per minute.  With the button presses, the computer is signaled with the elapsed distance information as it counts the revolutions.  It then knows revs/mile.  In real time, it knows time via its internal clock and calculates distance / time = velocity on the fly to read out miles per hour. So for example:  You buy a new set of tires.  Take the car out on the highway and at the first mile marker, press the cal. button.  At the second mile marker, press again.  The speedometer is now calibrated. Note: In the case of gross operator error say exceeding 15% of the preset, the speedometer would not reset to some absurd miscalibration, but would simply go to a preset default and prompt the driver to redo.  A variation in control would be a pair of buttons, one button to start the calibration and one to set it. There is no downside to my suggestion and I will expect to see it in next year’s higher end models.  There is no longer any reason for miscalibrated speedos as they can lead to tailgating (highreading speedos) or tickets, fines, increased insurance rates, and in the event of fatal accidents, criminal charges of vehicular manslaughter (low reading speedos).  Anyone who suffers losses from inaccurate speedo indications after next year’s models should consider adverse action against the manufacturer, now that he has been given fair notice of the solution to the high or low reading speedometer problem.

I believe that Chrysler has incorporated an electronic calibration, to match up with the various tire sizes, for years now. But remember, in various countries, a Speedo that reads to slow is outlawed, thus errors have tended to fall in the other direction. This benefits the company since warranties are tied to the indicated miles on the clock. Richard.

Response:

Geez, Nomen, why just the "high end models"??  They can afford the speeding tickets more than the poor folks can.  The carmakers should put your idea into ALL new cars. Arthur

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Test your speedometer for accuracy with a stopwatch while driving a steady-state speed between mile markers.  Mine reads 5 mph slow, making it a real ticket-getter. With electronic speedometers now in current  use, the manufacturer could incorporate a simple, user calibration feature.  This feature would be accessed by the driver. Given todays digital electronics, the error induced in the speedometer comes not from the instrument, but from the varying rolling radius of the driving wheel.  In fact, additional error is introduced by the differential gear as it accommodates driving wheels which may differ slightly in rolling radius.  A simple calibration feature could reduce speedometer error to no more than 0.5% with negligible cost to the manufacturer. Here’s how it can be done: The only parameter that need be measured by a speedometer calibration microprocessor is the number of wheel revolutions per mile.  Currently, this is an estimate based upon the installed tire-wheel combo.  Revs/mile can be counted by the transmission with a little input from the driver. All he needs to do is to press a button at the start of a mile marker and again as he crosses the next mile marker.  For more accuracy, one, two, up to five mile markers can be used and the computer will recognize the larger intervals and calculate accordingly.  The speed of the car, or speed variations, during measurement is irrelevant.  The computer just needs to calibrate the wheel radius, as the rest of the speedometer calculation is a simple algebraic calculation based on time, which the microprocesser is accurate to microseconds per minute.  With the button presses, the computer is signaled with the elapsed distance information as it counts the revolutions.  It then knows revs/mile.  In real time, it knows time via its internal clock and calculates distance / time = velocity on the fly to read out miles per hour. So for example:  You buy a new set of tires.  Take the car out on the highway and at the first mile marker, press the cal. button.  At the second mile marker, press again.  The speedometer is now calibrated. Note: In the case of gross operator error say exceeding 15% of the preset, the speedometer would not reset to some absurd miscalibration, but would simply go to a preset default and prompt the driver to redo.  A variation in control would be a pair of buttons, one button to start the calibration and one to set it. There is no downside to my suggestion and I will expect to see it in next year’s higher end models.  There is no longer any reason for miscalibrated speedos as they can lead to tailgating (highreading speedos) or tickets, fines, increased insurance rates, and in the event of fatal accidents, criminal charges of vehicular manslaughter (low reading speedos).  Anyone who suffers losses from inaccurate speedo indications after next year’s models should consider adverse action against the manufacturer, now that he has been given fair notice of the solution to the high or low reading speedometer problem.

Response:

Test your speedometer for accuracy with a stopwatch while driving a steady-state speed between mile markers.

Not always accurate, road crews often remove paddle markers for maintenance and their accurate placement after that isn’t guaranteed. The only accurate markers are those painted on the roadway by the cops for aerial pacing.

Response:

Test your speedometer for accuracy with a stopwatch while driving a steady-state speed between mile markers.  Mine reads 5 mph slow, making it a real ticket-getter. With electronic speedometers now in current  use, the manufacturer could incorporate a simple, user calibration feature.  This feature would be accessed by the driver. Given todays digital electronics, the error induced in the speedometer comes not from the instrument, but from the varying rolling radius of the driving wheel.  In fact, additional error is introduced by the differential gear as it accommodates driving wheels which may differ slightly in rolling radius.  A simple calibration feature could reduce speedometer error to no more than 0.5% with negligible cost to the manufacturer. Here’s how it can be done: The only parameter that need be measured by a speedometer calibration microprocessor is the number of wheel revolutions per mile.  Currently, this is an estimate based upon the installed tire-wheel combo.  Revs/mile can be counted by the transmission with a little input from the driver. All he needs to do is to press a button at the start of a mile marker and again as he crosses the next mile marker.  For more accuracy, one, two, up to five mile markers can be used and the computer will recognize the larger intervals and calculate accordingly.  The speed of the car, or speed variations, during measurement is irrelevant.  The computer just needs to calibrate the wheel radius, as the rest of the speedometer calculation is a simple algebraic calculation based on time, which the microprocesser is accurate to microseconds per minute.  With the button presses, the computer is signaled with the elapsed distance information as it counts the revolutions.  It then knows revs/mile.  In real time, it knows time via its internal clock and calculates distance / time = velocity on the fly to read out miles per hour. So for example:  You buy a new set of tires.  Take the car out on the highway and at the first mile marker, press the cal. button.  At the second mile marker, press again.  The speedometer is now calibrated.   Note: In the case of gross operator error say exceeding 15% of the preset, the speedometer would not reset to some absurd miscalibration, but would simply go to a preset default and prompt the driver to redo.  A variation in control would be a pair of buttons, one button to start the calibration and one to set it. There is no downside to my suggestion and I will expect to see it in next year’s higher end models.  There is no longer any reason for miscalibrated speedos as they can lead to tailgating (highreading speedos) or tickets, fines, increased insurance rates, and in the event of fatal accidents, criminal charges of vehicular manslaughter (low reading speedos).  Anyone who suffers losses from inaccurate speedo indications after next year’s models should consider adverse action against the manufacturer, now that he has been given fair notice of the solution to the high or low reading speedometer problem.

Response:

Test your speedometer for accuracy with a stopwatch while driving a steady-state speed between mile markers.  Mine reads 5 mph slow, making it a real ticket-getter. With electronic speedometers now in current  use, the manufacturer could incorporate a simple, user calibration feature.  This feature would be accessed by the driver. Given todays digital electronics, the error induced in the speedometer comes not from the instrument, but from the varying rolling radius of the driving wheel.  In fact, additional error is introduced by the differential gear as it accommodates driving wheels which may differ slightly in rolling radius.  A simple calibration feature could reduce speedometer error to no more than 0.5% with negligible cost to the manufacturer. Here’s how it can be done: The only parameter that need be measured by a speedometer calibration microprocessor is the number of wheel revolutions per mile.  Currently, this is an estimate based upon the installed tire-wheel combo.  Revs/mile can be counted by the transmission with a little input from the driver. All he needs to do is to press a button at the start of a mile marker and again as he crosses the next mile marker.  For more accuracy, one, two, up to five mile markers can be used and the computer will recognize the larger intervals and calculate accordingly.  The speed of the car, or speed variations, during measurement is irrelevant.  The computer just needs to calibrate the wheel radius, as the rest of the speedometer calculation is a simple algebraic calculation based on time, which the microprocesser is accurate to microseconds per minute.  With the button presses, the computer is signaled with the elapsed distance information as it counts the revolutions.  It then knows revs/mile.  In real time, it knows time via its internal clock and calculates distance / time = velocity on the fly to read out miles per hour. So for example:  You buy a new set of tires.  Take the car out on the highway and at the first mile marker, press the cal. button.  At the second mile marker, press again.  The speedometer is now calibrated.   Note: In the case of gross operator error say exceeding 15% of the preset, the speedometer would not reset to some absurd miscalibration, but would simply go to a preset default and prompt the driver to redo.  A variation in control would be a pair of buttons, one button to start the calibration and one to set it. There is no downside to my suggestion and I will expect to see it in next year’s higher end models.  There is no longer any reason for miscalibrated speedos as they can lead to tailgating (highreading speedos) or tickets, fines, increased insurance rates, and in the event of fatal accidents, criminal charges of vehicular manslaughter (low reading speedos).  Anyone who suffers losses from inaccurate speedo indications after next year’s models should consider adverse action against the manufacturer, now that he has been given fair notice of the solution to the high or low reading speedometer problem.

Response:

Test your speedometer for accuracy with a stopwatch while driving a steady-state speed between mile markers.

Not always accurate, road crews often remove paddle markers for maintenance and their accurate placement after that isn’t guaranteed. The only accurate markers are those painted on the roadway by the cops for aerial pacing.

Response:

Geez, Nomen, why just the "high end models"??  They can afford the speeding tickets more than the poor folks can.  The carmakers should put your idea into ALL new cars. Arthur

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Test your speedometer for accuracy with a stopwatch while driving a steady-state speed between mile markers.  Mine reads 5 mph slow, making it a real ticket-getter. With electronic speedometers now in current  use, the manufacturer could incorporate a simple, user calibration feature.  This feature would be accessed by the driver. Given todays digital electronics, the error induced in the speedometer comes not from the instrument, but from the varying rolling radius of the driving wheel.  In fact, additional error is introduced by the differential gear as it accommodates driving wheels which may differ slightly in rolling radius.  A simple calibration feature could reduce speedometer error to no more than 0.5% with negligible cost to the manufacturer. Here’s how it can be done: The only parameter that need be measured by a speedometer calibration microprocessor is the number of wheel revolutions per mile.  Currently, this is an estimate based upon the installed tire-wheel combo.  Revs/mile can be counted by the transmission with a little input from the driver. All he needs to do is to press a button at the start of a mile marker and again as he crosses the next mile marker.  For more accuracy, one, two, up to five mile markers can be used and the computer will recognize the larger intervals and calculate accordingly.  The speed of the car, or speed variations, during measurement is irrelevant.  The computer just needs to calibrate the wheel radius, as the rest of the speedometer calculation is a simple algebraic calculation based on time, which the microprocesser is accurate to microseconds per minute.  With the button presses, the computer is signaled with the elapsed distance information as it counts the revolutions.  It then knows revs/mile.  In real time, it knows time via its internal clock and calculates distance / time = velocity on the fly to read out miles per hour. So for example:  You buy a new set of tires.  Take the car out on the highway and at the first mile marker, press the cal. button.  At the second mile marker, press again.  The speedometer is now calibrated. Note: In the case of gross operator error say exceeding 15% of the preset, the speedometer would not reset to some absurd miscalibration, but would simply go to a preset default and prompt the driver to redo.  A variation in control would be a pair of buttons, one button to start the calibration and one to set it. There is no downside to my suggestion and I will expect to see it in next year’s higher end models.  There is no longer any reason for miscalibrated speedos as they can lead to tailgating (highreading speedos) or tickets, fines, increased insurance rates, and in the event of fatal accidents, criminal charges of vehicular manslaughter (low reading speedos).  Anyone who suffers losses from inaccurate speedo indications after next year’s models should consider adverse action against the manufacturer, now that he has been given fair notice of the solution to the high or low reading speedometer problem.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Geez, Nomen, why just the "high end models"??  They can afford the speeding tickets more than the poor folks can.  The carmakers should put your idea into ALL new cars. Arthur Test your speedometer for accuracy with a stopwatch while driving a steady-state speed between mile markers.  Mine reads 5 mph slow, making it a real ticket-getter. With electronic speedometers now in current  use, the manufacturer could incorporate a simple, user calibration feature.  This feature would be accessed by the driver. Given todays digital electronics, the error induced in the speedometer comes not from the instrument, but from the varying rolling radius of the driving wheel.  In fact, additional error is introduced by the differential gear as it accommodates driving wheels which may differ slightly in rolling radius.  A simple calibration feature could reduce speedometer error to no more than 0.5% with negligible cost to the manufacturer. Here’s how it can be done: The only parameter that need be measured by a speedometer calibration microprocessor is the number of wheel revolutions per mile.  Currently, this is an estimate based upon the installed tire-wheel combo.  Revs/mile can be counted by the transmission with a little input from the driver. All he needs to do is to press a button at the start of a mile marker and again as he crosses the next mile marker.  For more accuracy, one, two, up to five mile markers can be used and the computer will recognize the larger intervals and calculate accordingly.  The speed of the car, or speed variations, during measurement is irrelevant.  The computer just needs to calibrate the wheel radius, as the rest of the speedometer calculation is a simple algebraic calculation based on time, which the microprocesser is accurate to microseconds per minute.  With the button presses, the computer is signaled with the elapsed distance information as it counts the revolutions.  It then knows revs/mile.  In real time, it knows time via its internal clock and calculates distance / time = velocity on the fly to read out miles per hour. So for example:  You buy a new set of tires.  Take the car out on the highway and at the first mile marker, press the cal. button.  At the second mile marker, press again.  The speedometer is now calibrated. Note: In the case of gross operator error say exceeding 15% of the preset, the speedometer would not reset to some absurd miscalibration, but would simply go to a preset default and prompt the driver to redo.  A variation in control would be a pair of buttons, one button to start the calibration and one to set it. There is no downside to my suggestion and I will expect to see it in next year’s higher end models.  There is no longer any reason for miscalibrated speedos as they can lead to tailgating (highreading speedos) or tickets, fines, increased insurance rates, and in the event of fatal accidents, criminal charges of vehicular manslaughter (low reading speedos).  Anyone who suffers losses from inaccurate speedo indications after next year’s models should consider adverse action against the manufacturer, now that he has been given fair notice of the solution to the high or low reading speedometer problem.

I believe that Chrysler has incorporated an electronic calibration, to match up with the various tire sizes, for years now. But remember, in various countries, a Speedo that reads to slow is outlawed, thus errors have tended to fall in the other direction. This benefits the company since warranties are tied to the indicated miles on the clock. Richard.

Response:

Question:

Do synthetic oils make any difference or have regular oils gotten so much better over the last 30 years that synthetics no longer offer a benefit? I use synthetic in winter here in Eastern Ontario, simply because it stays more fluid in extreme cold and therefore the car starts better. Otherwise I think it’s just a waste of money.

I thought the rule was that you can’t switch back and forth. That synthetic and standard oils were incompatible so once you started with synthetics you have to stay with them. I’ve always been a little suspicious that this was an idea dreamed up by Mobil’s marketing department rather than their chemists but I’ve never heard it challanged.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Do synthetic oils make any difference or have regular oils gotten so much better over the last 30 years that synthetics no longer offer a benefit? I’d really like to hear from mechanics who have seen the insides of hundreds of engines. I’ve used Mobil 1 for 30 years and I’ve never had cold weather starting problems but I have know way of knowing if the Mobil 1 was actually responsible. I also don’t know if it’s prolonged the life of any of my engines, no individual driver can know that. A mechanic who sees the insides of lots of engines is in a better position to tell. Does anyone know if any of the auto or oil companies ever published any studies? In over 25 years as an active mechanic I have rebuilt and maintained a LOT of engines – and on vehicles serviced by the shops I worked in, with oil changes at 5000 mile or 3 month intervals, using quality 10w40 and 20w50 oils, I have NEVER seen a lubrication related failure.

What were the common failures you saw? Matt

Response:

Old wive’s tale. Larry

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Do synthetic oils make any difference or have regular oils gotten so much better over the last 30 years that synthetics no longer offer a benefit? I use synthetic in winter here in Eastern Ontario, simply because it stays more fluid in extreme cold and therefore the car starts better. Otherwise I think it’s just a waste of money. I thought the rule was that you can’t switch back and forth. That synthetic and standard oils were incompatible so once you started with synthetics you have to stay with them. I’ve always been a little suspicious that this was an idea dreamed up by Mobil’s marketing department rather than their chemists but I’ve never heard it challanged.

Response:

Do synthetic oils make any difference or have regular oils gotten so much better over the last 30 years that synthetics no longer offer a benefit?

I use synthetic in winter here in Eastern Ontario, simply because it stays more fluid in extreme cold and therefore the car starts better. Otherwise I think it’s just a waste of money.

Response:

Do synthetic oils make any difference or have regular oils gotten so much better over the last 30 years that synthetics no longer offer a benefit? I use synthetic in winter here in Eastern Ontario, simply because it stays more fluid in extreme cold and therefore the car starts better. Otherwise I think it’s just a waste of money.

Not a waste of money if you leave it in a bit longer than conventional oil. Many users feel this is OK and it saves user time and conserves resources and money. Richard.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Synth oils CAN make a difference but ususally in very extreme conditions. Very cold, very hot with sustained high speeds (very high speeds like over 90 mph). If you want your warranty intact you must change at prescribed intervals synth or not though. Some sight some lofty brands specifying synth oils like Porsche, some Benz etc for their 15k change intervals. It’s not just because of synth and it’s NOT the only reason they’re spec’d. Think of how a Porsche is used (especially in Germany) very high sustained speeds in varying weather. Also another reason the oil changes can be extended is the large amounts of oil they hold. Some as many as 10 or 12 qts. Larry Do synthetic oils make any difference or have regular oils gotten so much better over the last 30 years that synthetics no longer offer a benefit? What defines very cold?. Mobil 1 was developed for use on the Alaska pipeline where temperatures can be 20, 30 or 40 degrees below 0. What about ordinary cold weather, 0F or maybe -5F which is about as cold as it ever gets where I live in Massachusetts? Do those of you who regularly take engines apart notice any difference in wear between engines that use Mobil 1 vs those that use regular oil? I had a car that would not start at temperatures less than 15F if I didn’t plug the block heater in first.  I never had that trouble after switching to synthetic oil. What oil were you using before switching?

Always 5W30.  Usually Valvoline. I never used anything lighter than 10W40 in any of my cars, and have only had cold starting problems on 2 or 3 occaisions – one was -46F in Winnipeg with 20W50 oil in a ‘69 Dart 6, and the other was a sustained -20F with the old 1989 Aerostar 3 liter sitting in a blizzard with substandard spark plugs and wires. It flooded on the first start, then would not start, no matter how fast it cranked, untill the plugs were changed. I have had block heaters in a few of my cars, but have only used them on the VERY odd occaision. Southwestern Ontario snow belt since 1969.

This car was a problem child, even when new.  It’s the only vehicle I’ve ever had trouble with.  Switching to synthetic solved the problem.

Response:

5W30 oil in early Ford 2.3 engines destryed camshafts in warm weather – 10W40 or 20W50 totally eliminated the problem. 307 Chevy engines run on 5W30 routinely destroyed camshafts as well. Again, heavier oil virtually eliminated the problem. Yes, the camshafts were "soft" and eventually did go "flat" even with excellent maintenance, but not usually before the car had a LOT of miles on it,…

Oh yes – the G.M. nitrided camshafts.  The nitrided layer was hard, but thin – once it wore thru, they wore like butter. Bill Putney (to reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my address with "x") —–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–==  Over 100,000 Newsgroups – 19 Different Servers! =—–

Response:

Do synthetic oils make any difference or have regular oils gotten so much better over the last 30 years that synthetics no longer offer a benefit? I’d really like to hear from mechanics who have seen the insides of hundreds of engines. I’ve used Mobil 1 for 30 years and I’ve never had cold weather starting problems but I have know way of knowing if the Mobil 1 was actually responsible. I also don’t know if it’s prolonged the life of any of my engines, no individual driver can know that. A mechanic who sees the insides of lots of engines is in a better position to tell. Does anyone know if any of the auto or oil companies ever published any studies?

In over 25 years as an active mechanic I have rebuilt and maintained a LOT of engines – and on vehicles serviced by the shops I worked in, with oil changes at 5000 mile or 3 month intervals, using quality 10w40 and 20w50 oils, I have NEVER seen a lubrication related failure. On neglected vehicles, vehicles where oil change intervals have been unduly extended, or where cheap or too light oil was used, I’ve seen more than my share. 5W30 oil in early Ford 2.3 engines destryed camshafts in warm weather – 10W40 or 20W50 totally eliminated the problem. 307 Chevy engines run on 5W30 routinely destroyed camshafts as well. Again, heavier oil virtually eliminated the problem. Yes, the camshafts were "soft" and eventually did go "flat" even with excellent maintenance, but not usually before the car had a LOT of miles on it, and up here in Ontario, the bodies had suffered a significant amount of rust damage. If those engines had been run on Synthetic oils, the improvements would have been similar. As for my own vehicles, I’ve only gotten rid of ONE with less than 100,000 miles (160,000km) on it, and have not scrapped any with less than 230,000Km. The only engine problems I have EVER had on my own cars were problems that existed when I bought them – a 1985 Chrysler Lebaron 2.6 with a spun bearing that required a rebuild before it could be driven, (Mitsoshitty engine)  and and an Austin Mini 850 with 196,000 miles on it (burned a quart in 150 miles or so when I got it) and an old Rambler 230 with plugged oil galleries that had noisy valves until I added an external oiler, or  manufacturer’s defects (dropped and worn guides on 1988 New Yorker 3.0 (Mitsoshitty engine again) where I replaced the cyl heads at 189,000KM. Thats out of some 32 cars. Longest I owned any of them was 10 years

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Synth oils CAN make a difference but ususally in very extreme conditions. Very cold, very hot with sustained high speeds (very high speeds like over 90 mph). If you want your warranty intact you must change at prescribed intervals synth or not though. Some sight some lofty brands specifying synth oils like Porsche, some Benz etc for their 15k change intervals. It’s not just because of synth and it’s NOT the only reason they’re spec’d. Think of how a Porsche is used (especially in Germany) very high sustained speeds in varying weather. Also another reason the oil changes can be extended is the large amounts of oil they hold. Some as many as 10 or 12 qts. Larry Do synthetic oils make any difference or have regular oils gotten so much better over the last 30 years that synthetics no longer offer a benefit? What defines very cold?. Mobil 1 was developed for use on the Alaska pipeline where temperatures can be 20, 30 or 40 degrees below 0. What about ordinary cold weather, 0F or maybe -5F which is about as cold as it ever gets where I live in Massachusetts? Do those of you who regularly take engines apart notice any difference in wear between engines that use Mobil 1 vs those that use regular oil? I had a car that would not start at temperatures less than 15F if I didn’t plug the block heater in first.  I never had that trouble after switching to synthetic oil.

What oil were you using before switching? I never used anything lighter than 10W40 in any of my cars, and have only had cold starting problems on 2 or 3 occaisions – one was -46F in Winnipeg with 20W50 oil in a ‘69 Dart 6, and the other was a sustained -20F with the old 1989 Aerostar 3 liter sitting in a blizzard with substandard spark plugs and wires. It flooded on the first start, then would not start, no matter how fast it cranked, untill the plugs were changed. I have had block heaters in a few of my cars, but have only used them on the VERY odd occaision. Southwestern Ontario snow belt since 1969.

Response:

In addition to a 2001 T&C we have a 2000 VW 1.8 Turbo Passat. Just got a note from VW regarding a sludge problem with that engine. They provide a list of recommended brands and weights – all synthetic. WVK – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Do synthetic oils make any difference or have regular oils gotten so much better over the last 30 years that synthetics no longer offer a benefit? Synthetics definitely make a difference, but the real question is are they worth the cost?  I use synthetic because the cold weather cranking ability they give is worth it to me.  However, from a wear standpoint, most modern engines with modern oils will last so long that synthetic probably doesn’t add a real advantage. Matt

Response:

Do synthetic oils make any difference or have regular oils gotten so much better over the last 30 years that synthetics no longer offer a benefit?

Synthetics definitely make a difference, but the real question is are they worth the cost?  I use synthetic because the cold weather cranking ability they give is worth it to me.  However, from a wear standpoint, most modern engines with modern oils will last so long that synthetic probably doesn’t add a real advantage. Matt

Response:

No. Synthetic oils are much more heat-stable etc. DAS — For direct contact replace nospam with schmetterling —

*Perhaps* synthetic oils are just another fad — a money-maker for the purveyors, but of little or no practical value. MB

Response:

Synthetic oils are much more heat stable, as already mentioned by an earlier poster. BTW, don’t entirely agree with jdoe’s comment about Autobahns in that cars have trip computers on which one may rely.  I suggest same applie to frequent short cold-weather journeys.  Oil-change intervals are likely to go down but I would still rely on the advice of a modern trip computer.  With older cars it’s different, of course. DAS — For direct contact replace nospam with schmetterling —

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Synth oils CAN make a difference but ususally in very extreme conditions. Very cold, very hot with sustained high speeds (very high speeds like over 90 mph). If you want your warranty intact you must change at prescribed intervals synth or not though. Some sight some lofty brands specifying synth oils like Porsche, some Benz etc for their 15k change intervals. It’s not just because of synth and it’s NOT the only reason they’re spec’d. Think of how a Porsche is used (especially in Germany) very high sustained speeds in varying weather. Also another reason the oil changes can be extended is the large amounts of oil they hold. Some as many as 10 or 12 qts. Larry Do synthetic oils make any difference or have regular oils gotten so much better over the last 30 years that synthetics no longer offer a benefit? What defines very cold?. Mobil 1 was developed for use on the Alaska pipeline where temperatures can be 20, 30 or 40 degrees below 0. What about ordinary cold weather, 0F or maybe -5F which is about as cold as it ever gets where I live in Massachusetts? Do those of you who regularly take engines apart notice any difference in wear between engines that use Mobil 1 vs those that use regular oil?

Response:

Why? Trip computers are supposed to give you an indication of oil-change intervals that approx reflect the type of use an engine gets. The US (or at least this newsgroup) seems full of people who insist on 3000-mile oil change whatever a manufacturer suggests.  Still, it’s cheaper than going to see a shrink because of the worry, even if it’s environmentally less friendly. DAS — For direct contact replace nospam with schmetterling —

What does a trip computer have to do with how an engine is used? Those vehicled are regularly held at or near redline for very extended periods. I fail to see the significance of a trip computer other than a convenience. Hell my T&C has a trip computer but I still do my oil & filt at 3000-3500 miles. Larry

[.......]

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Do synthetic oils make any difference or have regular oils gotten so much better over the last 30 years that synthetics no longer offer a benefit? I’d really like to hear from mechanics who have seen the insides of hundreds of engines. I’ve used Mobil 1 for 30 years and I’ve never had cold weather starting problems but I have know way of knowing if the Mobil 1 was actually responsible. I also don’t know if it’s prolonged the life of any of my engines, no individual driver can know that. A mechanic who sees the insides of lots of engines is in a better position to tell. Does anyone know if any of the auto or oil companies ever published any studies? I can only relate what mechanics have said to me when discussing oil change intervals with synthetic:  "I’ve seen engines that have followed 15K manufacturer intervals with very heavy sludge buildup at 75K miles." FWIW, I change (synthetic) oil at 7500 miles. Floyd

Well, I have used Mobil 1 since it came out. I change oil twice a year. Several times I have sent a sample to a testing lab and the used oil came back still in spec. I have never had a oil consumption problem or sludge buildup. I do not travel short cold trips in the winter; which would mandate more frequent changes. Richard.

Response:

Do synthetic oils make any difference or have regular oils gotten so much better over the last 30 years that synthetics no longer offer a benefit? I’d really like to hear from mechanics who have seen the insides of hundreds of engines. I’ve used Mobil 1 for 30 years and I’ve never had cold weather starting problems but I have know way of knowing if the Mobil 1 was actually responsible. I also don’t know if it’s prolonged the life of any of my engines, no individual driver can know that. A mechanic who sees the insides of lots of engines is in a better position to tell. Does anyone know if any of the auto or oil companies ever published any studies?

I can only relate what mechanics have said to me when discussing oil change intervals with synthetic:  "I’ve seen engines that have followed 15K manufacturer intervals with very heavy sludge buildup at 75K miles." FWIW, I change (synthetic) oil at 7500 miles. Floyd

Response:

Forty years or so ago, Molybdenum Disulphide additives were all the rage; do they still exist? I haven’t looked, but I notice that the manuals for both our DC vehicles advise against using additives. *Perhaps* synthetic oils are just another fad — a money-maker for the purveyors, but of little or no practical value. MB launched the following message into cyberspace: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Do synthetic oils make any difference or have regular oils gotten so much better over the last 30 years that synthetics no longer offer a benefit? I’d really like to hear from mechanics who have seen the insides of hundreds of engines. I’ve used Mobil 1 for 30 years and I’ve never had cold weather starting problems but I have know way of knowing if the Mobil 1 was actually responsible. I also don’t know if it’s prolonged the life of any of my engines, no individual driver can know that. A mechanic who sees the insides of lots of engines is in a better position to tell. Does anyone know if any of the auto or oil companies ever published any studies?

Response:

Do synthetic oils make any difference or have regular oils gotten so much better over the last 30 years that synthetics no longer offer a benefit?

I’d really like to hear from mechanics who have seen the insides of hundreds of engines. I’ve used Mobil 1 for 30 years and I’ve never had cold weather starting problems but I have know way of knowing if the Mobil 1 was actually responsible. I also don’t know if it’s prolonged the life of any of my engines, no individual driver can know that. A mechanic who sees the insides of lots of engines is in a better position to tell. Does anyone know if any of the auto or oil companies ever published any studies?

Response:

What does a trip computer have to do with how an engine is used? Those vehicled are regularly held at or near redline for very extended periods. I fail to see the significance of a trip computer other than a convenience. Hell my T&C has a trip computer but I still do my oil & filt at 3000-3500 miles. Larry – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Synthetic oils are much more heat stable, as already mentioned by an earlier poster. BTW, don’t entirely agree with jdoe’s comment about Autobahns in that cars have trip computers on which one may rely.  I suggest same applie to frequent short cold-weather journeys.  Oil-change intervals are likely to go down but I would still rely on the advice of a modern trip computer.  With older cars it’s different, of course. DAS — For direct contact replace nospam with schmetterling — Synth oils CAN make a difference but ususally in very extreme conditions. Very cold, very hot with sustained high speeds (very high speeds like over 90 mph). If you want your warranty intact you must change at prescribed intervals synth or not though. Some sight some lofty brands specifying synth oils like Porsche, some Benz etc for their 15k change intervals. It’s not just because of synth and it’s NOT the only reason they’re spec’d. Think of how a Porsche is used (especially in Germany) very high sustained speeds in varying weather. Also another reason the oil changes can be extended is the large amounts of oil they hold. Some as many as 10 or 12 qts. Larry Do synthetic oils make any difference or have regular oils gotten so much better over the last 30 years that synthetics no longer offer a benefit? What defines very cold?. Mobil 1 was developed for use on the Alaska pipeline where temperatures can be 20, 30 or 40 degrees below 0. What about ordinary cold weather, 0F or maybe -5F which is about as cold as it ever gets where I live in Massachusetts? Do those of you who regularly take engines apart notice any difference in wear between engines that use Mobil 1 vs those that use regular oil?

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Synth oils CAN make a difference but ususally in very extreme conditions. Very cold, very hot with sustained high speeds (very high speeds like over 90 mph). If you want your warranty intact you must change at prescribed intervals synth or not though. Some sight some lofty brands specifying synth oils like Porsche, some Benz etc for their 15k change intervals. It’s not just because of synth and it’s NOT the only reason they’re spec’d. Think of how a Porsche is used (especially in Germany) very high sustained speeds in varying weather. Also another reason the oil changes can be extended is the large amounts of oil they hold. Some as many as 10 or 12 qts. Larry Do synthetic oils make any difference or have regular oils gotten so much better over the last 30 years that synthetics no longer offer a benefit? What defines very cold?. Mobil 1 was developed for use on the Alaska pipeline where temperatures can be 20, 30 or 40 degrees below 0. What about ordinary cold weather, 0F or maybe -5F which is about as cold as it ever gets where I live in Massachusetts? Do those of you who regularly take engines apart notice any difference in wear between engines that use Mobil 1 vs those that use regular oil?

I had a car that would not start at temperatures less than 15F if I didn’t plug the block heater in first.  I never had that trouble after switching to synthetic oil.

Response:

Do synthetic oils make any difference or have regular oils gotten so much better over the last 30 years that synthetics no longer offer a benefit?

Response:

Do synthetic oils make any difference or have regular oils gotten so much better over the last 30 years that synthetics no longer offer a benefit?

The main benefit of synthetics is a longer oil-change interval.  For instance, BMW and Porsche specify synthetic and ~15K mile oil change intervals; about double the dino-oil intervals.  They also come in very lightweight formulations, like 0W20, etc., that help high performance engines pass the cold-start emission tests yet protect at high RPM. However, if you’re a 3K oil-change aficionado, you might just as well stay with dino. Floyd

Response:

Synth oils CAN make a difference but ususally in very extreme conditions. Very cold, very hot with sustained high speeds (very high speeds like over 90 mph). If you want your warranty intact you must change at prescribed intervals synth or not though. Some sight some lofty brands specifying synth oils like Porsche, some Benz etc for their 15k change intervals. It’s not just because of synth and it’s NOT the only reason they’re spec’d. Think of how a Porsche is used (especially in Germany) very high sustained speeds in varying weather. Also another reason the oil changes can be extended is the large amounts of oil they hold. Some as many as 10 or 12 qts. Larry

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Do synthetic oils make any difference or have regular oils gotten so much better over the last 30 years that synthetics no longer offer a benefit?

Response:

Do synthetic oils make any difference or have regular oils gotten so much better over the last 30 years that synthetics no longer offer a benefit? The main benefit of synthetics is a longer oil-change interval.  For instance, BMW and Porsche specify synthetic and ~15K mile oil change intervals; about double the dino-oil intervals.  They also come in very lightweight formulations, like 0W20, etc., that help high performance engines pass the cold-start emission tests yet protect at high RPM. However, if you’re a 3K oil-change aficionado, you might just as well stay with dino. Floyd

Note the full story: A good synthetic will not coke when used under very hot conditions (non-water cooled turbo). It will also tend to pump faster when cold. (This characteristic is because of the uniform structure of the base synthetic oil). But yes, conventional oil has been significantly improved over the years. Many people tend to change the oil too frequently today. But if you take short drives in cold weather the oil change period should be kept to 3,000 miles or so. Richard.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Synth oils CAN make a difference but ususally in very extreme conditions. Very cold, very hot with sustained high speeds (very high speeds like over 90 mph). If you want your warranty intact you must change at prescribed intervals synth or not though. Some sight some lofty brands specifying synth oils like Porsche, some Benz etc for their 15k change intervals. It’s not just because of synth and it’s NOT the only reason they’re spec’d. Think of how a Porsche is used (especially in Germany) very high sustained speeds in varying weather. Also another reason the oil changes can be extended is the large amounts of oil they hold. Some as many as 10 or 12 qts. Larry Do synthetic oils make any difference or have regular oils gotten so much better over the last 30 years that synthetics no longer offer a benefit?

What defines very cold?. Mobil 1 was developed for use on the Alaska pipeline where temperatures can be 20, 30 or 40 degrees below 0. What about ordinary cold weather, 0F or maybe -5F which is about as cold as it ever gets where I live in Massachusetts? Do those of you who regularly take engines apart notice any difference in wear between engines that use Mobil 1 vs those that use regular oil?

Response:

Do synthetic oils make any difference or have regular oils gotten so much better over the last 30 years that synthetics no longer offer a benefit?

Response:

Do synthetic oils make any difference or have regular oils gotten so much better over the last 30 years that synthetics no longer offer a benefit?

The main benefit of synthetics is a longer oil-change interval.  For instance, BMW and Porsche specify synthetic and ~15K mile oil change intervals; about double the dino-oil intervals.  They also come in very lightweight formulations, like 0W20, etc., that help high performance engines pass the cold-start emission tests yet protect at high RPM. However, if you’re a 3K oil-change aficionado, you might just as well stay with dino. Floyd

Response:

Synth oils CAN make a difference but ususally in very extreme conditions. Very cold, very hot with sustained high speeds (very high speeds like over 90 mph). If you want your warranty intact you must change at prescribed intervals synth or not though. Some sight some lofty brands specifying synth oils like Porsche, some Benz etc for their 15k change intervals. It’s not just because of synth and it’s NOT the only reason they’re spec’d. Think of how a Porsche is used (especially in Germany) very high sustained speeds in varying weather. Also another reason the oil changes can be extended is the large amounts of oil they hold. Some as many as 10 or 12 qts. Larry

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Do synthetic oils make any difference or have regular oils gotten so much better over the last 30 years that synthetics no longer offer a benefit?

Response:

Do synthetic oils make any difference or have regular oils gotten so much better over the last 30 years that synthetics no longer offer a benefit? The main benefit of synthetics is a longer oil-change interval.  For instance, BMW and Porsche specify synthetic and ~15K mile oil change intervals; about double the dino-oil intervals.  They also come in very lightweight formulations, like 0W20, etc., that help high performance engines pass the cold-start emission tests yet protect at high RPM. However, if you’re a 3K oil-change aficionado, you might just as well stay with dino. Floyd

Note the full story: A good synthetic will not coke when used under very hot conditions (non-water cooled turbo). It will also tend to pump faster when cold. (This characteristic is because of the uniform structure of the base synthetic oil). But yes, conventional oil has been significantly improved over the years. Many people tend to change the oil too frequently today. But if you take short drives in cold weather the oil change period should be kept to 3,000 miles or so. Richard.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Synth oils CAN make a difference but ususally in very extreme conditions. Very cold, very hot with sustained high speeds (very high speeds like over 90 mph). If you want your warranty intact you must change at prescribed intervals synth or not though. Some sight some lofty brands specifying synth oils like Porsche, some Benz etc for their 15k change intervals. It’s not just because of synth and it’s NOT the only reason they’re spec’d. Think of how a Porsche is used (especially in Germany) very high sustained speeds in varying weather. Also another reason the oil changes can be extended is the large amounts of oil they hold. Some as many as 10 or 12 qts. Larry Do synthetic oils make any difference or have regular oils gotten so much better over the last 30 years that synthetics no longer offer a benefit?

What defines very cold?. Mobil 1 was developed for use on the Alaska pipeline where temperatures can be 20, 30 or 40 degrees below 0. What about ordinary cold weather, 0F or maybe -5F which is about as cold as it ever gets where I live in Massachusetts? Do those of you who regularly take engines apart notice any difference in wear between engines that use Mobil 1 vs those that use regular oil?

Response:

Synthetic oils are much more heat stable, as already mentioned by an earlier poster. BTW, don’t entirely agree with jdoe’s comment about Autobahns in that cars have trip computers on which one may rely.  I suggest same applie to frequent short cold-weather journeys.  Oil-change intervals are likely to go down but I would still rely on the advice of a modern trip computer.  With older cars it’s different, of course. DAS — For direct contact replace nospam with schmetterling —

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Synth oils CAN make a difference but ususally in very extreme conditions. Very cold, very hot with sustained high speeds (very high speeds like over 90 mph). If you want your warranty intact you must change at prescribed intervals synth or not though. Some sight some lofty brands specifying synth oils like Porsche, some Benz etc for their 15k change intervals. It’s not just because of synth and it’s NOT the only reason they’re spec’d. Think of how a Porsche is used (especially in Germany) very high sustained speeds in varying weather. Also another reason the oil changes can be extended is the large amounts of oil they hold. Some as many as 10 or 12 qts. Larry Do synthetic oils make any difference or have regular oils gotten so much better over the last 30 years that synthetics no longer offer a benefit? What defines very cold?. Mobil 1 was developed for use on the Alaska pipeline where temperatures can be 20, 30 or 40 degrees below 0. What about ordinary cold weather, 0F or maybe -5F which is about as cold as it ever gets where I live in Massachusetts? Do those of you who regularly take engines apart notice any difference in wear between engines that use Mobil 1 vs those that use regular oil?

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Synth oils CAN make a difference but ususally in very extreme conditions. Very cold, very hot with sustained high speeds (very high speeds like over 90 mph). If you want your warranty intact you must change at prescribed intervals synth or not though. Some sight some lofty brands specifying synth oils like Porsche, some Benz etc for their 15k change intervals. It’s not just because of synth and it’s NOT the only reason they’re spec’d. Think of how a Porsche is used (especially in Germany) very high sustained speeds in varying weather. Also another reason the oil changes can be extended is the large amounts of oil they hold. Some as many as 10 or 12 qts. Larry Do synthetic oils make any difference or have regular oils gotten so much better over the last 30 years that synthetics no longer offer a benefit? What defines very cold?. Mobil 1 was developed for use on the Alaska pipeline where temperatures can be 20, 30 or 40 degrees below 0. What about ordinary cold weather, 0F or maybe -5F which is about as cold as it ever gets where I live in Massachusetts? Do those of you who regularly take engines apart notice any difference in wear between engines that use Mobil 1 vs those that use regular oil?

I had a car that would not start at temperatures less than 15F if I didn’t plug the block heater in first.  I never had that trouble after switching to synthetic oil.

Response:

What does a trip computer have to do with how an engine is used? Those vehicled are regularly held at or near redline for very extended periods. I fail to see the significance of a trip computer other than a convenience. Hell my T&C has a trip computer but I still do my oil & filt at 3000-3500 miles. Larry – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Synthetic oils are much more heat stable, as already mentioned by an earlier poster. BTW, don’t entirely agree with jdoe’s comment about Autobahns in that cars have trip computers on which one may rely.  I suggest same applie to frequent short cold-weather journeys.  Oil-change intervals are likely to go down but I would still rely on the advice of a modern trip computer.  With older cars it’s different, of course. DAS — For direct contact replace nospam with schmetterling — Synth oils CAN make a difference but ususally in very extreme conditions. Very cold, very hot with sustained high speeds (very high speeds like over 90 mph). If you want your warranty intact you must change at prescribed intervals synth or not though. Some sight some lofty brands specifying synth oils like Porsche, some Benz etc for their 15k change intervals. It’s not just because of synth and it’s NOT the only reason they’re spec’d. Think of how a Porsche is used (especially in Germany) very high sustained speeds in varying weather. Also another reason the oil changes can be extended is the large amounts of oil they hold. Some as many as 10 or 12 qts. Larry Do synthetic oils make any difference or have regular oils gotten so much better over the last 30 years that synthetics no longer offer a benefit? What defines very cold?. Mobil 1 was developed for use on the Alaska pipeline where temperatures can be 20, 30 or 40 degrees below 0. What about ordinary cold weather, 0F or maybe -5F which is about as cold as it ever gets where I live in Massachusetts? Do those of you who regularly take engines apart notice any difference in wear between engines that use Mobil 1 vs those that use regular oil?

Response:

Do synthetic oils make any difference or have regular oils gotten so much better over the last 30 years that synthetics no longer offer a benefit?

I’d really like to hear from mechanics who have seen the insides of hundreds of engines. I’ve used Mobil 1 for 30 years and I’ve never had cold weather starting problems but I have know way of knowing if the Mobil 1 was actually responsible. I also don’t know if it’s prolonged the life of any of my engines, no individual driver can know that. A mechanic who sees the insides of lots of engines is in a better position to tell. Does anyone know if any of the auto or oil companies ever published any studies?

Response:

Forty years or so ago, Molybdenum Disulphide additives were all the rage; do they still exist? I haven’t looked, but I notice that the manuals for both our DC vehicles advise against using additives. *Perhaps* synthetic oils are just another fad — a money-maker for the purveyors, but of little or no practical value. MB launched the following message into cyberspace: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Do synthetic oils make any difference or have regular oils gotten so much better over the last 30 years that synthetics no longer offer a benefit? I’d really like to hear from mechanics who have seen the insides of hundreds of engines. I’ve used Mobil 1 for 30 years and I’ve never had cold weather starting problems but I have know way of knowing if the Mobil 1 was actually responsible. I also don’t know if it’s prolonged the life of any of my engines, no individual driver can know that. A mechanic who sees the insides of lots of engines is in a better position to tell. Does anyone know if any of the auto or oil companies ever published any studies?

Response:

Do synthetic oils make any difference or have regular oils gotten so much better over the last 30 years that synthetics no longer offer a benefit? I’d really like to hear from mechanics who have seen the insides of hundreds of engines. I’ve used Mobil 1 for 30 years and I’ve never had cold weather starting problems but I have know way of knowing if the Mobil 1 was actually responsible. I also don’t know if it’s prolonged the life of any of my engines, no individual driver can know that. A mechanic who sees the insides of lots of engines is in a better position to tell. Does anyone know if any of the auto or oil companies ever published any studies?

I can only relate what mechanics have said to me when discussing oil change intervals with synthetic:  "I’ve seen engines that have followed 15K manufacturer intervals with very heavy sludge buildup at 75K miles." FWIW, I change (synthetic) oil at 7500 miles. Floyd

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Do synthetic oils make any difference or have regular oils gotten so much better over the last 30 years that synthetics no longer offer a benefit? I’d really like to hear from mechanics who have seen the insides of hundreds of engines. I’ve used Mobil 1 for 30 years and I’ve never had cold weather starting problems but I have know way of knowing if the Mobil 1 was actually responsible. I also don’t know if it’s prolonged the life of any of my engines, no individual driver can know that. A mechanic who sees the insides of lots of engines is in a better position to tell. Does anyone know if any of the auto or oil companies ever published any studies? I can only relate what mechanics have said to me when discussing oil change intervals with synthetic:  "I’ve seen engines that have followed 15K manufacturer intervals with very heavy sludge buildup at 75K miles." FWIW, I change (synthetic) oil at 7500 miles. Floyd

Well, I have used Mobil 1 since it came out. I change oil twice a year. Several times I have sent a sample to a testing lab and the used oil came back still in spec. I have never had a oil consumption problem or sludge buildup. I do not travel short cold trips in the winter; which would mandate more frequent changes. Richard.

Response:

Why? Trip computers are supposed to give you an indication of oil-change intervals that approx reflect the type of use an engine gets. The US (or at least this newsgroup) seems full of people who insist on 3000-mile oil change whatever a manufacturer suggests.  Still, it’s cheaper than going to see a shrink because of the worry, even if it’s environmentally less friendly. DAS — For direct contact replace nospam with schmetterling —

What does a trip computer have to do with how an engine is used? Those vehicled are regularly held at or near redline for very extended periods. I fail to see the significance of a trip computer other than a convenience. Hell my T&C has a trip computer but I still do my oil & filt at 3000-3500 miles. Larry

[.......]

Response:

No. Synthetic oils are much more heat-stable etc. DAS — For direct contact replace nospam with schmetterling —

*Perhaps* synthetic oils are just another fad — a money-maker for the purveyors, but of little or no practical value. MB

Response:

Do synthetic oils make any difference or have regular oils gotten so much better over the last 30 years that synthetics no longer offer a benefit?

Synthetics definitely make a difference, but the real question is are they worth the cost?  I use synthetic because the cold weather cranking ability they give is worth it to me.  However, from a wear standpoint, most modern engines with modern oils will last so long that synthetic probably doesn’t add a real advantage. Matt

Response:

In addition to a 2001 T&C we have a 2000 VW 1.8 Turbo Passat. Just got a note from VW regarding a sludge problem with that engine. They provide a list of recommended brands and weights – all synthetic. WVK – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Do synthetic oils make any difference or have regular oils gotten so much better over the last 30 years that synthetics no longer offer a benefit? Synthetics definitely make a difference, but the real question is are they worth the cost?  I use synthetic because the cold weather cranking ability they give is worth it to me.  However, from a wear standpoint, most modern engines with modern oils will last so long that synthetic probably doesn’t add a real advantage. Matt

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Synth oils CAN make a difference but ususally in very extreme conditions. Very cold, very hot with sustained high speeds (very high speeds like over 90 mph). If you want your warranty intact you must change at prescribed intervals synth or not though. Some sight some lofty brands specifying synth oils like Porsche, some Benz etc for their 15k change intervals. It’s not just because of synth and it’s NOT the only reason they’re spec’d. Think of how a Porsche is used (especially in Germany) very high sustained speeds in varying weather. Also another reason the oil changes can be extended is the large amounts of oil they hold. Some as many as 10 or 12 qts. Larry Do synthetic oils make any difference or have regular oils gotten so much better over the last 30 years that synthetics no longer offer a benefit? What defines very cold?. Mobil 1 was developed for use on the Alaska pipeline where temperatures can be 20, 30 or 40 degrees below 0. What about ordinary cold weather, 0F or maybe -5F which is about as cold as it ever gets where I live in Massachusetts? Do those of you who regularly take engines apart notice any difference in wear between engines that use Mobil 1 vs those that use regular oil? I had a car that would not start at temperatures less than 15F if I didn’t plug the block heater in first.  I never had that trouble after switching to synthetic oil.

What oil were you using before switching? I never used anything lighter than 10W40 in any of my cars, and have only had cold starting problems on 2 or 3 occaisions – one was -46F in Winnipeg with 20W50 oil in a ‘69 Dart 6, and the other was a sustained -20F with the old 1989 Aerostar 3 liter sitting in a blizzard with substandard spark plugs and wires. It flooded on the first start, then would not start, no matter how fast it cranked, untill the plugs were changed. I have had block heaters in a few of my cars, but have only used them on the VERY odd occaision. Southwestern Ontario snow belt since 1969.

Response:

Do synthetic oils make any difference or have regular oils gotten so much better over the last 30 years that synthetics no longer offer a benefit? I’d really like to hear from mechanics who have seen the insides of hundreds of engines. I’ve used Mobil 1 for 30 years and I’ve never had cold weather starting problems but I have know way of knowing if the Mobil 1 was actually responsible. I also don’t know if it’s prolonged the life of any of my engines, no individual driver can know that. A mechanic who sees the insides of lots of engines is in a better position to tell. Does anyone know if any of the auto or oil companies ever published any studies?

In over 25 years as an active mechanic I have rebuilt and maintained a LOT of engines – and on vehicles serviced by the shops I worked in, with oil changes at 5000 mile or 3 month intervals, using quality 10w40 and 20w50 oils, I have NEVER seen a lubrication related failure. On neglected vehicles, vehicles where oil change intervals have been unduly extended, or where cheap or too light oil was used, I’ve seen more than my share. 5W30 oil in early Ford 2.3 engines destryed camshafts in warm weather – 10W40 or 20W50 totally eliminated the problem. 307 Chevy engines run on 5W30 routinely destroyed camshafts as well. Again, heavier oil virtually eliminated the problem. Yes, the camshafts were "soft" and eventually did go "flat" even with excellent maintenance, but not usually before the car had a LOT of miles on it, and up here in Ontario, the bodies had suffered a significant amount of rust damage. If those engines had been run on Synthetic oils, the improvements would have been similar. As for my own vehicles, I’ve only gotten rid of ONE with less than 100,000 miles (160,000km) on it, and have not scrapped any with less than 230,000Km. The only engine problems I have EVER had on my own cars were problems that existed when I bought them – a 1985 Chrysler Lebaron 2.6 with a spun bearing that required a rebuild before it could be driven, (Mitsoshitty engine)  and and an Austin Mini 850 with 196,000 miles on it (burned a quart in 150 miles or so when I got it) and an old Rambler 230 with plugged oil galleries that had noisy valves until I added an external oiler, or  manufacturer’s defects (dropped and worn guides on 1988 New Yorker 3.0 (Mitsoshitty engine again) where I replaced the cyl heads at 189,000KM. Thats out of some 32 cars. Longest I owned any of them was 10 years

Response:

5W30 oil in early Ford 2.3 engines destryed camshafts in warm weather – 10W40 or 20W50 totally eliminated the problem. 307 Chevy engines run on 5W30 routinely destroyed camshafts as well. Again, heavier oil virtually eliminated the problem. Yes, the camshafts were "soft" and eventually did go "flat" even with excellent maintenance, but not usually before the car had a LOT of miles on it,…

Oh yes – the G.M. nitrided camshafts.  The nitrided layer was hard, but thin – once it wore thru, they wore like butter. Bill Putney (to reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my address with "x") —–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–==  Over 100,000 Newsgroups – 19 Different Servers! =—–

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Synth oils CAN make a difference but ususally in very extreme conditions. Very cold, very hot with sustained high speeds (very high speeds like over 90 mph). If you want your warranty intact you must change at prescribed intervals synth or not though. Some sight some lofty brands specifying synth oils like Porsche, some Benz etc for their 15k change intervals. It’s not just because of synth and it’s NOT the only reason they’re spec’d. Think of how a Porsche is used (especially in Germany) very high sustained speeds in varying weather. Also another reason the oil changes can be extended is the large amounts of oil they hold. Some as many as 10 or 12 qts. Larry Do synthetic oils make any difference or have regular oils gotten so much better over the last 30 years that synthetics no longer offer a benefit? What defines very cold?. Mobil 1 was developed for use on the Alaska pipeline where temperatures can be 20, 30 or 40 degrees below 0. What about ordinary cold weather, 0F or maybe -5F which is about as cold as it ever gets where I live in Massachusetts? Do those of you who regularly take engines apart notice any difference in wear between engines that use Mobil 1 vs those that use regular oil? I had a car that would not start at temperatures less than 15F if I didn’t plug the block heater in first.  I never had that trouble after switching to synthetic oil. What oil were you using before switching?

Always 5W30.  Usually Valvoline. I never used anything lighter than 10W40 in any of my cars, and have only had cold starting problems on 2 or 3 occaisions – one was -46F in Winnipeg with 20W50 oil in a ‘69 Dart 6, and the other was a sustained -20F with the old 1989 Aerostar 3 liter sitting in a blizzard with substandard spark plugs and wires. It flooded on the first start, then would not start, no matter how fast it cranked, untill the plugs were changed. I have had block heaters in a few of my cars, but have only used them on the VERY odd occaision. Southwestern Ontario snow belt since 1969.

This car was a problem child, even when new.  It’s the only vehicle I’ve ever had trouble with.  Switching to synthetic solved the problem.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Do synthetic oils make any difference or have regular oils gotten so much better over the last 30 years that synthetics no longer offer a benefit? I’d really like to hear from mechanics who have seen the insides of hundreds of engines. I’ve used Mobil 1 for 30 years and I’ve never had cold weather starting problems but I have know way of knowing if the Mobil 1 was actually responsible. I also don’t know if it’s prolonged the life of any of my engines, no individual driver can know that. A mechanic who sees the insides of lots of engines is in a better position to tell. Does anyone know if any of the auto or oil companies ever published any studies? In over 25 years as an active mechanic I have rebuilt and maintained a LOT of engines – and on vehicles serviced by the shops I worked in, with oil changes at 5000 mile or 3 month intervals, using quality 10w40 and 20w50 oils, I have NEVER seen a lubrication related failure.

What were the common failures you saw? Matt

Response:

Do synthetic oils make any difference or have regular oils gotten so much better over the last 30 years that synthetics no longer offer a benefit?

I use synthetic in winter here in Eastern Ontario, simply because it stays more fluid in extreme cold and therefore the car starts better. Otherwise I think it’s just a waste of money.

Response:

Do synthetic oils make any difference or have regular oils gotten so much better over the last 30 years that synthetics no longer offer a benefit? I use synthetic in winter here in Eastern Ontario, simply because it stays more fluid in extreme cold and therefore the car starts better. Otherwise I think it’s just a waste of money.

Not a waste of money if you leave it in a bit longer than conventional oil. Many users feel this is OK and it saves user time and conserves resources and money. Richard.

Response:

Do synthetic oils make any difference or have regular oils gotten so much better over the last 30 years that synthetics no longer offer a benefit? I use synthetic in winter here in Eastern Ontario, simply because it stays more fluid in extreme cold and therefore the car starts better. Otherwise I think it’s just a waste of money.

I thought the rule was that you can’t switch back and forth. That synthetic and standard oils were incompatible so once you started with synthetics you have to stay with them. I’ve always been a little suspicious that this was an idea dreamed up by Mobil’s marketing department rather than their chemists but I’ve never heard it challanged.

Response:

Old wive’s tale. Larry

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Do synthetic oils make any difference or have regular oils gotten so much better over the last 30 years that synthetics no longer offer a benefit? I use synthetic in winter here in Eastern Ontario, simply because it stays more fluid in extreme cold and therefore the car starts better. Otherwise I think it’s just a waste of money. I thought the rule was that you can’t switch back and forth. That synthetic and standard oils were incompatible so once you started with synthetics you have to stay with them. I’ve always been a little suspicious that this was an idea dreamed up by Mobil’s marketing department rather than their chemists but I’ve never heard it challanged.

Response:

Question:

This car failed the test according to the computer that is why he said that it was probably the air filter. He started the test after he opened the hood and saw the filter, the problem was that it didnt pass. Can that be the problem? Thanks. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I just transered from Hawaii to here California and found out that I needed smog test done on my car. I took it to one of these shops and they told me it failed because of an aftermarket air cone filter. Can this be true? Yep. The air intake assembly is part of the engine emission control system, and all factory stock emissions-related equipment MUST be in place, untampered and functional or the car fails CA smog regardless of measurements made at the tailpipe. Yep, they do several visual inspections, looking for a variety of aftermarket parts that do not come with an Executive Order number to certify its acceptability, and also for certain missing items.  And, of course, the air-cleaner housing and other aspects of the stock intake system can definitely be part of the emissions-related equipment. This is one of the things an inspector is supposed to explicitly look at:

http://www.smogcheck.ca.gov/stdPAge.asp?Menu=/includes/Menu_GenInfo.h… http://www.smogcheck.ca.gov/stdPAge.asp?Menu=/includes/Menu_GenInfo.h… More generally, see http://www.smogcheck.ca.gov/stdhome.asp He did not check nothing else, he just saw the air filter and made that assumption. No, he saw the non-stock air cleaner and that’s all it took. He was actually doing you a favor by conducting a "pre-inspection" that didn’t cause a plainly noncompliant vehicle to be entered into The System, whereupon things would start getting bureaucratic and expensive for you:

http://www.smogcheck.ca.gov/stdPAge.asp?Menu=/includes/Menu_GenInfo.h… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If this is true, how can there be so many little racing cars here with modified air intakes and still pass? There *does* exist aftermarket equipment, including some that is directly smog related, whose manufacturers submitted it successfully for approval and got EO numbers. Besides that, I would be shocked — shocked! — to find that some of the kids were running illegal mods on the street and temporarily bolting the original equipment back on when it was time for their smog check.   Of course, this might also sometimes backfire (no pun intended) after their car, driving style, or attitude  inspires a cop to nose around the car and make a laundry list of additional sorts of trouble to get ‘em into. –Joe

Response:

This car failed the test according to the computer that is why he said that it was probably the air filter.

Stern’s right, a California smog tech can fail your car if it doesn’t pass VISUAL inspection.  (Meaning everything has to be either the way the factory set it, or it has to have a CARB EO decal.) If your car failed the actual tailpipe test, you’ll have to post your emissions results numbers for anyone to be able to help you.  (And don’t post them unless everything under the hood is connected.)

Response:

I just transered from Hawaii to here California and found out that I needed smog test done on my car. I took it to one of these shops and they told me it failed because of an aftermarket air cone filter. Can this be true?

Yep. The air intake assembly is part of the engine emission control system, and all factory stock emissions-related equipment MUST be in place, untampered and functional or the car fails CA smog regardless of measurements made at the tailpipe. They do NOT fuck around on this! a 94 Chrysler New Yorker with 156k. Engine runs smooth, no smoke. The guy told me that the mixture of the air and gas is not correct therefore it failed. He did not check nothing else, he just saw the air filter and made that assumption.

No, he saw the non-stock air cleaner and that’s all it took. I removed the factory air box coz it had broken hinges and thought that I might as well get something better than the stock air filter.

But these aftermarket exposed cone filters (K&N etc.) aren’t better than the stock air cleaner. Especially now that you need the stock filter to pass smog. If this is true, how can there be so many little racing cars here with modified air intakes and still pass?

Oh, that’s easy. Cars made before ‘74 don’t have to pass smog. Race cars that aren’t licensed for on-road use don’t have to pass smog. There’re all kinds of exemptions, none of which your ‘94 Chrysler qualifies for. Go hit www.car-part.com and find yourself a replacement stock airbox. Results are listed in descending-price order and only interchangeable years, makes and models are shown. You can remove the restrictor cone from the stock air intake and get all the "improvement" you need, and since it’s *inside* the stock airbox, the smog tech won’t see it. As it stands, you managed to disable at least two critical elements of the original emission control system by replacing the factory airbox with an exposed-element filter, so…go put it back the way it was and try again. Also, yours is a 1994, not a 1974. It can easily still run smoothly and with no apparent symptoms and be out of emissions compliance. DS

Response:

I just transered from Hawaii to here California and found out that I needed smog test done on my car. I took it to one of these shops and they told me it failed because of an aftermarket air cone filter. Can this be true? Yep. The air intake assembly is part of the engine emission control system, and all factory stock emissions-related equipment MUST be in place, untampered and functional or the car fails CA smog regardless of measurements made at the tailpipe.

Yep, they do several visual inspections, looking for a variety of aftermarket parts that do not come with an Executive Order number to certify its acceptability, and also for certain missing items.  And, of course, the air-cleaner housing and other aspects of the stock intake system can definitely be part of the emissions-related equipment. This is one of the things an inspector is supposed to explicitly look at: http://www.smogcheck.ca.gov/stdPAge.asp?Menu=/includes/Menu_GenInfo.h… http://www.smogcheck.ca.gov/stdPAge.asp?Menu=/includes/Menu_GenInfo.h… More generally, see http://www.smogcheck.ca.gov/stdhome.asp He did not check nothing else, he just saw the air filter and made that assumption. No, he saw the non-stock air cleaner and that’s all it took.

He was actually doing you a favor by conducting a "pre-inspection" that didn’t cause a plainly noncompliant vehicle to be entered into The System, whereupon things would start getting bureaucratic and expensive for you: http://www.smogcheck.ca.gov/stdPAge.asp?Menu=/includes/Menu_GenInfo.h… If this is true, how can there be so many little racing cars here with modified air intakes and still pass?

There *does* exist aftermarket equipment, including some that is directly smog related, whose manufacturers submitted it successfully for approval and got EO numbers. Besides that, I would be shocked — shocked! — to find that some of the kids were running illegal mods on the street and temporarily bolting the original equipment back on when it was time for their smog check.   Of course, this might also sometimes backfire (no pun intended) after their car, driving style, or attitude  inspires a cop to nose around the car and make a laundry list of additional sorts of trouble to get ‘em into. –Joe

Response:

I just transered from Hawaii to here California and found out that I needed smog test done on my car. I took it to one of these shops and they told me it failed because of an aftermarket air cone filter. Can this be true? It is a 94 Chrysler New Yorker with 156k. Engine runs smooth, no smoke. The guy told me that the mixture of the air and gas is not correct therefore it failed. He did not check nothing else, he just saw the air filter and made that assumption. I removed the factory air box coz it had broken hinges and thought that I might as well get something better than the stock air filter. If this is true, how can there be so many little racing cars here with modified air intakes and still pass???? Thanks for your comments.

Response:

I just transered from Hawaii to here California and found out that I needed smog test done on my car. I took it to one of these shops and they told me it failed because of an aftermarket air cone filter. Can this be true? It is a 94 Chrysler New Yorker with 156k. Engine runs smooth, no smoke. The guy told me that the mixture of the air and gas is not correct therefore it failed. He did not check nothing else, he just saw the air filter and made that assumption. I removed the factory air box coz it had broken hinges and thought that I might as well get something better than the stock air filter. If this is true, how can there be so many little racing cars here with modified air intakes and still pass???? Thanks for your comments.

Response:

I just transered from Hawaii to here California and found out that I needed smog test done on my car. I took it to one of these shops and they told me it failed because of an aftermarket air cone filter. Can this be true?

Yep. The air intake assembly is part of the engine emission control system, and all factory stock emissions-related equipment MUST be in place, untampered and functional or the car fails CA smog regardless of measurements made at the tailpipe. They do NOT fuck around on this! a 94 Chrysler New Yorker with 156k. Engine runs smooth, no smoke. The guy told me that the mixture of the air and gas is not correct therefore it failed. He did not check nothing else, he just saw the air filter and made that assumption.

No, he saw the non-stock air cleaner and that’s all it took. I removed the factory air box coz it had broken hinges and thought that I might as well get something better than the stock air filter.

But these aftermarket exposed cone filters (K&N etc.) aren’t better than the stock air cleaner. Especially now that you need the stock filter to pass smog. If this is true, how can there be so many little racing cars here with modified air intakes and still pass?

Oh, that’s easy. Cars made before ‘74 don’t have to pass smog. Race cars that aren’t licensed for on-road use don’t have to pass smog. There’re all kinds of exemptions, none of which your ‘94 Chrysler qualifies for. Go hit www.car-part.com and find yourself a replacement stock airbox. Results are listed in descending-price order and only interchangeable years, makes and models are shown. You can remove the restrictor cone from the stock air intake and get all the "improvement" you need, and since it’s *inside* the stock airbox, the smog tech won’t see it. As it stands, you managed to disable at least two critical elements of the original emission control system by replacing the factory airbox with an exposed-element filter, so…go put it back the way it was and try again. Also, yours is a 1994, not a 1974. It can easily still run smoothly and with no apparent symptoms and be out of emissions compliance. DS

Response:

I just transered from Hawaii to here California and found out that I needed smog test done on my car. I took it to one of these shops and they told me it failed because of an aftermarket air cone filter. Can this be true? Yep. The air intake assembly is part of the engine emission control system, and all factory stock emissions-related equipment MUST be in place, untampered and functional or the car fails CA smog regardless of measurements made at the tailpipe.

Yep, they do several visual inspections, looking for a variety of aftermarket parts that do not come with an Executive Order number to certify its acceptability, and also for certain missing items.  And, of course, the air-cleaner housing and other aspects of the stock intake system can definitely be part of the emissions-related equipment. This is one of the things an inspector is supposed to explicitly look at: http://www.smogcheck.ca.gov/stdPAge.asp?Menu=/includes/Menu_GenInfo.h… http://www.smogcheck.ca.gov/stdPAge.asp?Menu=/includes/Menu_GenInfo.h… More generally, see http://www.smogcheck.ca.gov/stdhome.asp He did not check nothing else, he just saw the air filter and made that assumption. No, he saw the non-stock air cleaner and that’s all it took.

He was actually doing you a favor by conducting a "pre-inspection" that didn’t cause a plainly noncompliant vehicle to be entered into The System, whereupon things would start getting bureaucratic and expensive for you: http://www.smogcheck.ca.gov/stdPAge.asp?Menu=/includes/Menu_GenInfo.h… If this is true, how can there be so many little racing cars here with modified air intakes and still pass?

There *does* exist aftermarket equipment, including some that is directly smog related, whose manufacturers submitted it successfully for approval and got EO numbers. Besides that, I would be shocked — shocked! — to find that some of the kids were running illegal mods on the street and temporarily bolting the original equipment back on when it was time for their smog check.   Of course, this might also sometimes backfire (no pun intended) after their car, driving style, or attitude  inspires a cop to nose around the car and make a laundry list of additional sorts of trouble to get ‘em into. –Joe

Response:

This car failed the test according to the computer that is why he said that it was probably the air filter. He started the test after he opened the hood and saw the filter, the problem was that it didnt pass. Can that be the problem? Thanks. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I just transered from Hawaii to here California and found out that I needed smog test done on my car. I took it to one of these shops and they told me it failed because of an aftermarket air cone filter. Can this be true? Yep. The air intake assembly is part of the engine emission control system, and all factory stock emissions-related equipment MUST be in place, untampered and functional or the car fails CA smog regardless of measurements made at the tailpipe. Yep, they do several visual inspections, looking for a variety of aftermarket parts that do not come with an Executive Order number to certify its acceptability, and also for certain missing items.  And, of course, the air-cleaner housing and other aspects of the stock intake system can definitely be part of the emissions-related equipment. This is one of the things an inspector is supposed to explicitly look at:

http://www.smogcheck.ca.gov/stdPAge.asp?Menu=/includes/Menu_GenInfo.h… http://www.smogcheck.ca.gov/stdPAge.asp?Menu=/includes/Menu_GenInfo.h… More generally, see http://www.smogcheck.ca.gov/stdhome.asp He did not check nothing else, he just saw the air filter and made that assumption. No, he saw the non-stock air cleaner and that’s all it took. He was actually doing you a favor by conducting a "pre-inspection" that didn’t cause a plainly noncompliant vehicle to be entered into The System, whereupon things would start getting bureaucratic and expensive for you:

http://www.smogcheck.ca.gov/stdPAge.asp?Menu=/includes/Menu_GenInfo.h… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If this is true, how can there be so many little racing cars here with modified air intakes and still pass? There *does* exist aftermarket equipment, including some that is directly smog related, whose manufacturers submitted it successfully for approval and got EO numbers. Besides that, I would be shocked — shocked! — to find that some of the kids were running illegal mods on the street and temporarily bolting the original equipment back on when it was time for their smog check.   Of course, this might also sometimes backfire (no pun intended) after their car, driving style, or attitude  inspires a cop to nose around the car and make a laundry list of additional sorts of trouble to get ‘em into. –Joe

Response:

This car failed the test according to the computer that is why he said that it was probably the air filter.

Stern’s right, a California smog tech can fail your car if it doesn’t pass VISUAL inspection.  (Meaning everything has to be either the way the factory set it, or it has to have a CARB EO decal.) If your car failed the actual tailpipe test, you’ll have to post your emissions results numbers for anyone to be able to help you.  (And don’t post them unless everything under the hood is connected.)

Response:

Question:

http://www.nationalreview.com/kerry/waffles.asp — Qu’ran 5.51: "O you who believe! do not take the Jews and the Christians for friends; they are friends of each other; and whoever amongst you takes them for a friend, then surely he is one of them; surely Allah does not guide the unjust people." Learn the Five Pillars of Islam: Lies, Deceit, Murder, Rape and Greed. http://www.prophetofdoom.net/prologue.html

Response:

YASSER ARAFAT [07/14 09:52 AM] FIRST HE SAID: "Terrorist organizations with specific political agendas may be encouraged and emboldened by Yasser Arafat’s transformation from outlaw to statesman…. [Terrorists] whose only object is to disrupt society require no such ‘role models’ as Arafat." – The New War, by John Kerry, published June 1997 THEN HE SAID: "Obviously, Yasser Arafat has been an impediment to the peace process… As far as I’m concerned, he’s an outlaw to the peace process." – John Kerry, interview with the Associated Press, March 10, 2004 PRESIDENTIAL EXPERIENCE [07/09 05:45 PM] FIRST HE SAID: "I think the American people want an experienced hand at the helm of state," said Kerry, who has spent 19 years in the Senate compared with Edwards’ five. "This is not the time for on-the-job training in the White House on national security issues." John Kerry, Feb. 3, 2004 THEN HE SAID: "I’ve seen John Edwards think, argue, advocate, legislate and lead for six years now." John Kerry, July 6, 2004 ISRAEL’S SECURITY WALL [07/09 05:43 PM] FIRST HE SAID: "I know how disheartened Palestinians are by the Israeli government’s decision to build a barrier off the green line, cutting deeply into Palestinian areas. We do not need another barrier to peace." John Kerry, Oct. 17 2003 THEN HE SAID: "Israel’s security fence is a legitimate act of self defense." John Kerry, Feb. 25, 2004 SUVS [06/02 02:01 PM] FIRST HE SAID: "I don’t own an SUV,” Kerry declared when asked by reporters on Earth Day 2004. THEN HE SAID: Asked whether or not his wife, Teresa, owned an SUV – on same conference call during which he denied owning an SUV – he fessed up, sorta: "The family has it. I don’t have it." Back in February, however, he rattled off a list of Kerry household cars: "We have some SUVs. We have a Jeep. We have a couple of Chrysler minivans. We have a PT Cruiser up in Boston. I have an old Dodge 600 that I keep in the Senate. … We also have a Chevy, a big Suburban." CRITICIZING THE PRESIDENT DURING WAR [06/02 02:00 PM] FIRST HE SAID: March 2003, Kerry said he would stop criticizing the president once war in Iraq began: "It’s what you owe the troops….I remember being one of those guys and reading news reports from home. If America is at war, I won’t speak a word without measuring how it will sound to the guys doing the fighting when they’re listening to their radios in the desert." THEN HE SAID: In early April 2003, while our troops were approaching Baghdad, Kerry said in a speech: "What we need now is not just a regime change in Saddam Hussein and Iraq, but we need a regime change in the United States." HIS VIETNAM MEDALS [06/02 01:59 PM] FIRST HE SAID: From 1971 until about a decade later, Kerry wanted people to think he threw his medals away in protest of Vietnam. In a 1971 interview, Kerry insisted that he "gave back, I can’t remember, six, seven, eight, nine" of his medals. THEN HE SAID: Around 1984, when Kerry ran for the Senate, the times changed and he wanted people to believe he kept the medals and "only" threw away the ribbons. Why? Because his union supporters in particular and voters in general were no longer enamored with the excesses of the antiwar movement. "It’s such a personal thing," he told the Washington Post in 1985. "They’re my medals. I’ll do what I want with them. And there shouldn’t be any expectations about them. It shouldn’t be a measurement of anything. People say, ‘You didn’t throw your medals away.’ Who said I had to? And why should I? It’s my business. I did not want to throw my medals away." A decade later, he told the Boston Globe that the only reason he didn’t chuck the medals was that he didn’t have time to go home and get them. In April 2004, Kerry told the Los Angeles Times, "I never ever implied that I threw away the medals. From Jonah Goldberg, "Senator Contradiction" CUBAN EMBARGO [06/02 01:58 PM] FIRST HE SAID: Kerry takes a tough line on the Cuban embargo. Sometimes. He was a big advocate of tough Helms-Burton legislation in 1996, which he still mentions, but he didn’t actually vote for it. Last year he still didn’t know what he thought about Cuba: ”I haven’t resolved what to do. I’m going to talk to a lot of people in Florida.” In August 2003 he told Tim Russert that he was against lifting sanctions: "Not Now. No." THEN HE SAID:A few days later, he wanted to allow "humanitarian" travel and interactions with Cuba that would end "the isolation that in my judgment helps Castro." (For more, see Peter Kirsanow, "Cuban Waffles") ABORTION LITMUS TEST FOR JUDGES [06/02 01:57 PM] FIRST HE SAID: Kerry promised during the primaries to appoint to the Supreme Court only justices who favor Roe v. Wade because "people who go to the Supreme Court ought to interpret the Constitution as it is interpreted, and if they have another point of view, then they’re not supporting the Constitution, which is what a judge does." THEN HE SAID: In April 2004, he said that he would be willing to appoint anti-Roe justices so long as the Court had a pro-Roe majority. ("Supporting the Constitution" was apparently no longer a requirement for his nominees.) THEN HE SAID: The abortion lobby expressed its displeasure, and reasonably so given its principles – if Clinton had followed that policy, the Court might have upheld bans on partial-birth abortion and pro-lifers would need to switch only one more vote to overturn Roe. So now Kerry is saying that he will nominate only pro-Roe justices. The flop-flip was accompanied by some unconvincing spin. Here’s what Kerry said yesterday: "I will not appoint somebody with a 5-4 court who’s about to undo Roe v. Wade. I’ve said that before. But that doesn’t mean that if that’s not the balance of the court I wouldn’t be prepared ultimately to appoint somebody to some court who has a different point of view. I’ve already voted for people like that. I voted for Judge Scalia." Nedra Pickler’s AP story has Kerry aides saying that "some court" was a reference to lower federal courts, not the Supreme Court. Aides said later that "some court" was not a reference to the Supreme Court, only lower federal benches. That is hard to reconcile with his prefatory reference to a 5-4 Supreme Court or with the Scalia example – in other words, with anything he said. Still unclear is whether he would appoint appeals-court judges who are anti-Roe. But he has been supporting filibusters of Bush judicial nominees for less than that: A major complaint against Priscilla Owen has been that she read a parental-notification law in a way the abortion lobby found disagreeable. – by Ramesh Ponnuru, originally posted in The Corner NO CHILD LEFT BEHIND [06/02 01:56 PM] FIRST HE SAID: Kerry voted for the "No Child Left Behind" legislation in 2001. THEN HE SAID: In the summer of 2003, he announced, "I’m running for President to make our public schools a focus for excellence, not a photo-op for tomorrow’s front pages – and I am going to criss-cross this country and hold George Bush accountable for making a mockery of the words ‘Leave No Child Behind.’" (For more on Kerry and education funding, see here.) "GAY MARRIAGE" [06/02 01:55 PM] FIRST HE SAID: In 1996, Kerry opposed federal legislation that would define marriage as between a man and a woman: "This is an unconstitutional, unprecedented, unnecessary and mean-spirited bill." In 2002 he joined Barney Frank and other members of his state’s congressional delegation in signing a letter asking the Massachusetts legislature to reject a constitutional amendment that would outlaw homosexual marriage: "We believe it would be a grave error for Massachusetts to enshrine in our Constitution a provision which would have such a negative effect on so many of our fellow residents." (USA Today, 4/2/11) THEN HE SAID: In February 2004, Kerry told reporters: "I support equal rights, the right of people to have civil unions, to have partner rights. I do not support marriage" for gays and lesbians. Asked if he would support a state constitutional amendment barring gay and lesbian marriages, Kerry didn’t rule out the possibility. "I’ll have to see what language there is," he said. CAPITAL PUNISHMENT FOR TERRORISTS [06/02 01:54 PM] FIRST HE SAID: Between 1989 and 1993, John Kerry voted three times against giving terrorists the death penalty. He went so far as to tell former Gov. William Weld, his 1996 GOP Senate opponent, that "’Your policy would amount to a terrorist protection policy." THEN HE SAID: In the wake of September 11, Kerry changed his mind. In Dec 2002 he said: "I am for the death penalty for terrorists because terrorists have declared war on your country. I support killing people who declare war on our country." THE PATRIOT ACT [06/02 01:53 PM] FIRST HE SAID: John Kerry voted for the Patriot Act in 2001 and even wrote parts of it himself. THEN HE SAID: "It is time to end the era of John Ashcroft. That starts with replacing the Patriot Act with a new law that protects our people and our liberties at the same time." -John Kerry, December 2003 THE IRAQ WAR: FUNDING [06/02 01:52 PM] FIRST HE SAID: On Face the Nation on 9/14/04, Kerry discussed an amendment he was pushing as part of the $87 billion funding bill for military operations in Iraq and Afghanistan. Asked if he would support the bill even without the amendment, he replied, "I don’t think any United States senator is going to abandon our troops and recklessly leave Iraq to whatever follows as a result of simply cutting and running. That’s irresponsible." He added "I don’t think anyone in the Congress is going to not give our troops ammunition, not give our troops the ability to be able to defend themselves. We’re not going to cut and run and not do the job." THEN HE SAID: Kerry voted against the bill in October 2003. He later infamously replied to a Republican ad highlighting the vote by saying, "I actually did vote for the $87 billion before I voted against it." (For … read more »

Response:

Speaking of Kerry Waffle’s…check this out http://cafepress.com/wafflehut – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – http://www.nationalreview.com/kerry/waffles.asp Oh, yeah. I was wondering if Kerry’s exploits in ‘the nam’ call to mind a famous 60s show about patrol boats, now in rerun? Except here, Hibbard might not prefer any comparison to Binghamton. And McHale would be Peck who would not show up in the show. It would just be Tim Conway, Lieutenant of the boat – REPORTING FOR DUTY! You’re in charge, Mr. Kerry, the crew would always say. It would be a tag line of the show. And in one famous episode, let’s say, Lt. JG reservist Kerry is running with a couple of other patrol boats, and one hits a mine. Conway runs around, not knowing what to do, and hysterically jams the boat into full forward. The guy playing Rassman, say the guy who normally played Carpenter, is sitting at the stern munching on an offical ‘John’s Cookie’ chocolate chip and waiting to be let off down river, and goes head first backwards as Conway/Kerry guns the boat. Of course, the speed up the film to exaggerate the effect. The others in the crew start shouting and trying to get his attention, Mr. Kerry, Mr. Kerry, man overboard! Finally they get him to notice, and he turns back around, pulling Carpenter/Rassman on board as the others are pulled out by the other boats which never left. And ‘Carpenter’ says, I’m telling Captain Binghamton about this! It’s still no match for Kerry’s own imagination, I’m sorry to say. I mean, it takes real talent as a sitcom writer to imagine you’re ferrying a CIA agent, like Felix Lighter, up the Mekong under secret orders into Cambodia where you got to listen to President Richard Nixon before he was even sworn into office. Peace. Jim: I’m sure a tremendous number of people will want to attend his funeral. Sir Humphrey: To pay tribute to a great man. Jim: Yeah, and to make sure he’s dead. – Yes, Prime Minister, A Diplomatic Incident

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – http://www.nationalreview.com/kerry/waffles.asp Oh, yeah. I was wondering if Kerry’s exploits in ‘the nam’ call to mind a famous 60s show about patrol boats, now in rerun? Except here, Hibbard might not prefer any comparison to Binghamton. And McHale would be Peck who would not show up in the show. It would just be Tim Conway, Lieutenant of the boat – REPORTING FOR DUTY! You’re in charge, Mr. Kerry, the crew would always say. It would be a tag line of the show. And in one famous episode, let’s say, Lt. JG reservist Kerry is running with a couple of other patrol boats, and one hits a mine. Conway runs around, not knowing what to do, and hysterically jams the boat into full forward. The guy playing Rassman, say the guy who normally played Carpenter, is sitting at the stern munching on an offical ‘John’s Cookie’ chocolate chip and waiting to be let off down river, and goes head first backwards as Conway/Kerry guns the boat. Of course, the speed up the film to exaggerate the effect. The others in the crew start shouting and trying to get his attention, Mr. Kerry, Mr. Kerry, man overboard! Finally they get him to notice, and he turns back around, pulling Carpenter/Rassman on board as the others are pulled out by the other boats which never left. And ‘Carpenter’ says, I’m telling Captain Binghamton about this! It’s still no match for Kerry’s own imagination, I’m sorry to say. I mean, it takes real talent as a sitcom writer to imagine you’re ferrying a CIA agent, like Felix Lighter, up the Mekong under secret orders into Cambodia where you got to listen to President Richard Nixon before he was even sworn into office.

               A good sitcom will take the masses mind off the escalating body count in Iraq (and the non-escalating income that they’re told was to result from it). Paul

Response:

http://www.nationalreview.com/kerry/waffles.asp

Oh, yeah. I was wondering if Kerry’s exploits in ‘the nam’ call to mind a famous 60s show about patrol boats, now in rerun? Except here, Hibbard might not prefer any comparison to Binghamton. And McHale would be Peck who would not show up in the show. It would just be Tim Conway, Lieutenant of the boat – REPORTING FOR DUTY! You’re in charge, Mr. Kerry, the crew would always say. It would be a tag line of the show. And in one famous episode, let’s say, Lt. JG reservist Kerry is running with a couple of other patrol boats, and one hits a mine. Conway runs around, not knowing what to do, and hysterically jams the boat into full forward. The guy playing Rassman, say the guy who normally played Carpenter, is sitting at the stern munching on an offical ‘John’s Cookie’ chocolate chip and waiting to be let off down river, and goes head first backwards as Conway/Kerry guns the boat. Of course, the speed up the film to exaggerate the effect. The others in the crew start shouting and trying to get his attention, Mr. Kerry, Mr. Kerry, man overboard! Finally they get him to notice, and he turns back around, pulling Carpenter/Rassman on board as the others are pulled out by the other boats which never left. And ‘Carpenter’ says, I’m telling Captain Binghamton about this! It’s still no match for Kerry’s own imagination, I’m sorry to say. I mean, it takes real talent as a sitcom writer to imagine you’re ferrying a CIA agent, like Felix Lighter, up the Mekong under secret orders into Cambodia where you got to listen to President Richard Nixon before he was even sworn into office. Peace. Jim: I’m sure a tremendous number of people will want to attend his funeral. Sir Humphrey: To pay tribute to a great man. Jim: Yeah, and to make sure he’s dead. – Yes, Prime Minister, A Diplomatic Incident

Response:

http://www.nationalreview.com/kerry/waffles.asp

How about Kerry’s cookies? He stole the idea for a cookie shop. But I haven’t heard anyone suggest that’s where Rassman got the cookie, before Kerry dumped him in the drink. Peace.

Response:

Question:

says… A car is not an investment.  It is money spent. Interestingly, most light aircraft keep appreciating in value.  Car makers ought to do a scientific study why their products are reduced to scrap metal value in a couple of years while planes are as good as gold… or better.

Supply and demand. Alex

Response:

Bought a 2004 Pacifica back in October for around 30K. Life demands (New dog, new child) have started us thinking about a larger SUV/Minivan.  Went to CarMax to price our Pacifica:  They told 18.500(Wholesale).  KBB quoted 19.5(Wholesale)/22.6(Retail).  Pretty sad for just 9 months later.

We bought our Pacifica AWD at the end of August last year for $28K (leather, sunroof, AM/FM/CD/DVD w/Surround Sound, Chrome Wheels). It now has 18,000 miles on it. My KBB quote is $23K(W), $26.6K(PP) and $28.8K(R). To me that is not too bad for almost 12 months later.

Response:

Sounds like a great deal.  What was list on the car?

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Bought a 2004 Pacifica back in October for around 30K. Life demands (New dog, new child) have started us thinking about a larger SUV/Minivan.  Went to CarMax to price our Pacifica:  They told 18.500(Wholesale).  KBB quoted 19.5(Wholesale)/22.6(Retail).  Pretty sad for just 9 months later. We bought our Pacifica AWD at the end of August last year for $28K (leather, sunroof, AM/FM/CD/DVD w/Surround Sound, Chrome Wheels). It now has 18,000 miles on it. My KBB quote is $23K(W), $26.6K(PP) and $28.8K(R). To me that is not too bad for almost 12 months later.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Sounds like a great deal.  What was list on the car? Bought a 2004 Pacifica back in October for around 30K. Life demands (New dog, new child) have started us thinking about a larger SUV/Minivan.  Went to CarMax to price our Pacifica:  They told 18.500(Wholesale).  KBB quoted 19.5(Wholesale)/22.6(Retail).  Pretty sad for just 9 months later. We bought our Pacifica AWD at the end of August last year for $28K (leather, sunroof, AM/FM/CD/DVD w/Surround Sound, Chrome Wheels). It now has 18,000 miles on it. My KBB quote is $23K(W), $26.6K(PP) and $28.8K(R). To me that is not too bad for almost 12 months later.

$37,010

Response:

Was there a trade or financing involved?  Sometimes the dealer giveth and taketh away.  If it was a clean deal sounds fantastic.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Sounds like a great deal.  What was list on the car? Bought a 2004 Pacifica back in October for around 30K. Life demands (New dog, new child) have started us thinking about a larger SUV/Minivan.  Went to CarMax to price our Pacifica:  They told 18.500(Wholesale).  KBB quoted 19.5(Wholesale)/22.6(Retail).  Pretty sad for just 9 months later. We bought our Pacifica AWD at the end of August last year for $28K (leather, sunroof, AM/FM/CD/DVD w/Surround Sound, Chrome Wheels). It now has 18,000 miles on it. My KBB quote is $23K(W), $26.6K(PP) and $28.8K(R). To me that is not too bad for almost 12 months later. $37,010

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – A car is not an investment.  It is money spent. This isn’t true.  A car is an investment.  You spend a set amount of money on it.  You gain (hopefully) a utility out of it’s use that is far in excess of the value of the money spent on it. A car is not a required purchase.  It is possible to live one’s life and not own a car.  You will be spending a lot of time on the bus.  But people invest in the utility of a car so that they basically gain time for themselves and freedom to do things they couldn’t do using mass transit, that is an investment. Ted Your definition isn’t the generally accepted one.  The only cars that are investments are classic cars that are appreciating.

No, classic cars only meet definition #2 – as they earn a rate of return (presumably if you sell them) But definition #1 covers just about all vehicles purchased for business use.  That is what "capital outlay" means.  A capital expenditure is one made on an item that does not earn a rate of return when the item is sold, instead it earns a rate of return when it’s used. If I work out of my home and I buy a car to enable me to work better, I am making an investment. The IRS understands this which is why they allow you to write off vehicles other than just classic cars. If I work for Domino’s Pizza and I buy a car to shuttle myself around, as well as deliver pizzas, when I am delivering pizzas I am making income – which also matches definion #1.  The IRS also understands this which is why they allow Domino’s Pizza to pay me mileage, then deduct this from their taxes. It is a very thin line between investing in a vehicle to make an income – like delivering pizzas, broom samples or whatever – and investing in a car so I am then eligible to commute to a job that is on the other end of the city and make my income from that job.  This is what freedom to do things you couldn’t do using mass transit means.  In fact a car purchased as a pure commuter vehicle is for all intents and purposes, an investment.  The only reason the IRS doesen’t recognize it for tax purposes is because everyone who works does this, and if the IRS did, the amount of mileage deducted would bankrupt the country. Even so, though, people still loophole this by buying vehicles then rolling the vehicle loans into home equity loans, and getting the deduction that way. "money spent" is money spent on crap like candy, junk food, vacations, xbox games, etc. in short, stuff that consumes time, and gives absolutely no monetary return to you whatsover.  A car is far, far from this. Ted – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Main Entry: investment Function: noun 1 : the outlay of money usually for income or profit : capital outlay; also : the sum invested or the property purchased 2 : the commitment of funds with a view to minimizing risk and safeguarding capital while earning a return

Question:

— I’m looking at a 95 Concorde with 77K on it. Price is $4,000. The car looks and drives like new. What should I watch out for before I buy it? Thanks Smitty

I have a 95 Eagle Vision Tsi, which is pretty much the same car. Bought it with 54K miles and in a little over 2 years time, it is up to 92K miles. I love this car, and it has been great to me this far. I am not sure what engine this Concorde you are looking at has or what options it has, but the only issues I have had with my car are: -Water pump replaced at around 57K miles (3.5 engine) -Timing Belt replaced at the same time -Brakes at 80K miles -Transmission work done at 70K miles (only cause it was under warranty    and I was picky on how it was shifting) -Major tuneup (i.e.: spark plugs, wires, filters, throttle bodies cleaned) at 89K miles All and all, these really are pretty reliable cars. The only things I would keep an eye on are: -Rack and pinion steering: move the steering wheel back and forth while the car is off and listen for any "pops". If there are then the rack may be going bad. -Check to see if the Trans has had any service and if so, was Chrysler ATF fluid replaced or used? -A/C work good? If not the evaperator may be going bad and that is expensive to fix I hope this information helps, and I wish you good luck in your possible purchase! — Nick <Remove number one if replying by electronic mail

Response:

My new to me 95 Concorde has a sound that seems to come from the dash that sounds like a small electric motor running when I open the door to get in. It seems to go away when I start it. Any ideas as to what this is? Thanks Smitty

Response:

I believe that is a little fan motor that blows air over a climate control temperature sensor.  I have the same thing in my ‘94 Intrepid.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My new to me 95 Concorde has a sound that seems to come from the dash that sounds like a small electric motor running when I open the door to get in. It seems to go away when I start it. Any ideas as to what this is? Thanks Smitty

Response:

– I’m looking at a 95 Concorde with 77K on it. Price is $4,000. The car looks and drives like new. What should I watch out for before I buy it? Thanks Smitty

Response:

Bought a 95 Concord at an auction 1 1/2 years ago.  Only problem, so far, has been a blown intake manifold gasket on the 3.5L engine.  Intake manifold gaskets on the 3.5 are a known problem, written up in this group regularly. Otherwise, it has been quite satisfactory.  Mine also has a ‘factory’ auxiliary transmission cooler.  Picked up a ‘factory’ shop manual on Ebay for $40, better than any Haynes or Chilton manual.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – — I’m looking at a 95 Concorde with 77K on it. Price is $4,000. The car looks and drives like new. What should I watch out for before I buy it? Thanks Smitty

Response:

If I remember my 94 LHS correctly the intake for the auto climate control sensor is near the glove box and turns on whenever car door open.  By the way it is an excellent system and far better than the one in my 2001 Avalon. In fact people complain about the Lexus system too.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My new to me 95 Concorde has a sound that seems to come from the dash that sounds like a small electric motor running when I open the door to get in. It seems to go away when I start it. Any ideas as to what this is? Thanks Smitty

Response:

Clunking can also be from rear AT mount if it comes from under AT console.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have to say, this is the most insightful thing I’ve seen on usenet in a long time. I have 3 LHS’s, and I just tracked down an annoying clunk to the bushings on the steering rack TODAY (I didn’t know they put rubber bushings in a tie rod end), and now I’ve learned how to stop the roof from vibrating. Wow! It’s going to be like having a new car…. I have found them to be very, very reliable. But that’s how I am with everything. No matter how everybody complains about a car, I always get good service out of them. I predict if the OP buys this thing with 77k on it and drives it to 120k, it’ll be rattling a lot more. But other than that it’ll do fine. — I’m looking at a 95 Concorde with 77K on it. Price is $4,000. The car looks and drives like new. What should I watch out for before I buy it? In general; Transmission should be checked out thoroughly.  If it’s already a rebuild, regard that as a plus, especially if done by a Chrysler dealer or a reputable transmission shop. Check the steering (but you do say it drives like new).  If it is loose or creaks, especially when cold, check for bad bushings at the center of the steering rack assembly. The LH cars developed a lot of creaks and such over time; most are plastic-on-plastic, and aren’t of that great a concern unless they point to collision damage, but you may spend a few weekends trying to track them down and cure them.  One of the most annoying noises that afflicts some of them when going over washboard roads is a vibration in the roof panel.  From the drivers seat it sounds like it’s coming from the trunk.   It can be cured by lowering the headliner, just enough to insert a thin, stiff piece of plastic or cardboard or similar between the roof panel and the stiffening brace, so the two can’t vibrate against each other.  The cardboard backing from a legal pad, cut into two strips, is perfect. -GP

Response:

— I’m looking at a 95 Concorde with 77K on it. Price is $4,000. The car looks and drives like new. What should I watch out for before I buy it?

If you EVER intend to drive at night outside the well-lit city, then test drive it at night, after dark, on an unlit road to make sure your X-ray vision is good enough to live with the absolutely abysmal headlamps. DS

Response:

I have to say, this is the most insightful thing I’ve seen on usenet in a long time. I have 3 LHS’s, and I just tracked down an annoying clunk to the bushings on the steering rack TODAY (I didn’t know they put rubber bushings in a tie rod end), and now I’ve learned how to stop the roof from vibrating. Wow! It’s going to be like having a new car…. I have found them to be very, very reliable. But that’s how I am with everything. No matter how everybody complains about a car, I always get good service out of them. I predict if the OP buys this thing with 77k on it and drives it to 120k, it’ll be rattling a lot more. But other than that it’ll do fine.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – — I’m looking at a 95 Concorde with 77K on it. Price is $4,000. The car looks and drives like new. What should I watch out for before I buy it? In general; Transmission should be checked out thoroughly.  If it’s already a rebuild, regard that as a plus, especially if done by a Chrysler dealer or a reputable transmission shop. Check the steering (but you do say it drives like new).  If it is loose or creaks, especially when cold, check for bad bushings at the center of the steering rack assembly. The LH cars developed a lot of creaks and such over time; most are plastic-on-plastic, and aren’t of that great a concern unless they point to collision damage, but you may spend a few weekends trying to track them down and cure them.  One of the most annoying noises that afflicts some of them when going over washboard roads is a vibration in the roof panel.  From the drivers seat it sounds like it’s coming from the trunk.   It can be cured by lowering the headliner, just enough to insert a thin, stiff piece of plastic or cardboard or similar between the roof panel and the stiffening brace, so the two can’t vibrate against each other.  The cardboard backing from a legal pad, cut into two strips, is perfect. -GP

Response:

— I’m looking at a 95 Concorde with 77K on it. Price is $4,000. The car looks and drives like new. What should I watch out for before I buy it?

In general; Transmission should be checked out thoroughly.  If it’s already a rebuild, regard that as a plus, especially if done by a Chrysler dealer or a reputable transmission shop. Check the steering (but you do say it drives like new).  If it is loose or creaks, especially when cold, check for bad bushings at the center of the steering rack assembly. The LH cars developed a lot of creaks and such over time; most are plastic-on-plastic, and aren’t of that great a concern unless they point to collision damage, but you may spend a few weekends trying to track them down and cure them.  One of the most annoying noises that afflicts some of them when going over washboard roads is a vibration in the roof panel.  From the drivers seat it sounds like it’s coming from the trunk.   It can be cured by lowering the headliner, just enough to insert a thin, stiff piece of plastic or cardboard or similar between the roof panel and the stiffening brace, so the two can’t vibrate against each other.  The cardboard backing from a legal pad, cut into two strips, is perfect. -GP

Response:

– I’m looking at a 95 Concorde with 77K on it. Price is $4,000. The car looks and drives like new. What should I watch out for before I buy it? Thanks Smitty

Response:

Bought a 95 Concord at an auction 1 1/2 years ago.  Only problem, so far, has been a blown intake manifold gasket on the 3.5L engine.  Intake manifold gaskets on the 3.5 are a known problem, written up in this group regularly. Otherwise, it has been quite satisfactory.  Mine also has a ‘factory’ auxiliary transmission cooler.  Picked up a ‘factory’ shop manual on Ebay for $40, better than any Haynes or Chilton manual.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – — I’m looking at a 95 Concorde with 77K on it. Price is $4,000. The car looks and drives like new. What should I watch out for before I buy it? Thanks Smitty

Response:

— I’m looking at a 95 Concorde with 77K on it. Price is $4,000. The car looks and drives like new. What should I watch out for before I buy it? Thanks Smitty

I have a 95 Eagle Vision Tsi, which is pretty much the same car. Bought it with 54K miles and in a little over 2 years time, it is up to 92K miles. I love this car, and it has been great to me this far. I am not sure what engine this Concorde you are looking at has or what options it has, but the only issues I have had with my car are: -Water pump replaced at around 57K miles (3.5 engine) -Timing Belt replaced at the same time -Brakes at 80K miles -Transmission work done at 70K miles (only cause it was under warranty    and I was picky on how it was shifting) -Major tuneup (i.e.: spark plugs, wires, filters, throttle bodies cleaned) at 89K miles All and all, these really are pretty reliable cars. The only things I would keep an eye on are: -Rack and pinion steering: move the steering wheel back and forth while the car is off and listen for any "pops". If there are then the rack may be going bad. -Check to see if the Trans has had any service and if so, was Chrysler ATF fluid replaced or used? -A/C work good? If not the evaperator may be going bad and that is expensive to fix I hope this information helps, and I wish you good luck in your possible purchase! — Nick <Remove number one if replying by electronic mail

Response:

— I’m looking at a 95 Concorde with 77K on it. Price is $4,000. The car looks and drives like new. What should I watch out for before I buy it?

In general; Transmission should be checked out thoroughly.  If it’s already a rebuild, regard that as a plus, especially if done by a Chrysler dealer or a reputable transmission shop. Check the steering (but you do say it drives like new).  If it is loose or creaks, especially when cold, check for bad bushings at the center of the steering rack assembly. The LH cars developed a lot of creaks and such over time; most are plastic-on-plastic, and aren’t of that great a concern unless they point to collision damage, but you may spend a few weekends trying to track them down and cure them.  One of the most annoying noises that afflicts some of them when going over washboard roads is a vibration in the roof panel.  From the drivers seat it sounds like it’s coming from the trunk.   It can be cured by lowering the headliner, just enough to insert a thin, stiff piece of plastic or cardboard or similar between the roof panel and the stiffening brace, so the two can’t vibrate against each other.  The cardboard backing from a legal pad, cut into two strips, is perfect. -GP

Response:

— I’m looking at a 95 Concorde with 77K on it. Price is $4,000. The car looks and drives like new. What should I watch out for before I buy it?

If you EVER intend to drive at night outside the well-lit city, then test drive it at night, after dark, on an unlit road to make sure your X-ray vision is good enough to live with the absolutely abysmal headlamps. DS

Response:

I have to say, this is the most insightful thing I’ve seen on usenet in a long time. I have 3 LHS’s, and I just tracked down an annoying clunk to the bushings on the steering rack TODAY (I didn’t know they put rubber bushings in a tie rod end), and now I’ve learned how to stop the roof from vibrating. Wow! It’s going to be like having a new car…. I have found them to be very, very reliable. But that’s how I am with everything. No matter how everybody complains about a car, I always get good service out of them. I predict if the OP buys this thing with 77k on it and drives it to 120k, it’ll be rattling a lot more. But other than that it’ll do fine.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – — I’m looking at a 95 Concorde with 77K on it. Price is $4,000. The car looks and drives like new. What should I watch out for before I buy it? In general; Transmission should be checked out thoroughly.  If it’s already a rebuild, regard that as a plus, especially if done by a Chrysler dealer or a reputable transmission shop. Check the steering (but you do say it drives like new).  If it is loose or creaks, especially when cold, check for bad bushings at the center of the steering rack assembly. The LH cars developed a lot of creaks and such over time; most are plastic-on-plastic, and aren’t of that great a concern unless they point to collision damage, but you may spend a few weekends trying to track them down and cure them.  One of the most annoying noises that afflicts some of them when going over washboard roads is a vibration in the roof panel.  From the drivers seat it sounds like it’s coming from the trunk.   It can be cured by lowering the headliner, just enough to insert a thin, stiff piece of plastic or cardboard or similar between the roof panel and the stiffening brace, so the two can’t vibrate against each other.  The cardboard backing from a legal pad, cut into two strips, is perfect. -GP

Response:

Clunking can also be from rear AT mount if it comes from under AT console.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have to say, this is the most insightful thing I’ve seen on usenet in a long time. I have 3 LHS’s, and I just tracked down an annoying clunk to the bushings on the steering rack TODAY (I didn’t know they put rubber bushings in a tie rod end), and now I’ve learned how to stop the roof from vibrating. Wow! It’s going to be like having a new car…. I have found them to be very, very reliable. But that’s how I am with everything. No matter how everybody complains about a car, I always get good service out of them. I predict if the OP buys this thing with 77k on it and drives it to 120k, it’ll be rattling a lot more. But other than that it’ll do fine. — I’m looking at a 95 Concorde with 77K on it. Price is $4,000. The car looks and drives like new. What should I watch out for before I buy it? In general; Transmission should be checked out thoroughly.  If it’s already a rebuild, regard that as a plus, especially if done by a Chrysler dealer or a reputable transmission shop. Check the steering (but you do say it drives like new).  If it is loose or creaks, especially when cold, check for bad bushings at the center of the steering rack assembly. The LH cars developed a lot of creaks and such over time; most are plastic-on-plastic, and aren’t of that great a concern unless they point to collision damage, but you may spend a few weekends trying to track them down and cure them.  One of the most annoying noises that afflicts some of them when going over washboard roads is a vibration in the roof panel.  From the drivers seat it sounds like it’s coming from the trunk.   It can be cured by lowering the headliner, just enough to insert a thin, stiff piece of plastic or cardboard or similar between the roof panel and the stiffening brace, so the two can’t vibrate against each other.  The cardboard backing from a legal pad, cut into two strips, is perfect. -GP

Response:

My new to me 95 Concorde has a sound that seems to come from the dash that sounds like a small electric motor running when I open the door to get in. It seems to go away when I start it. Any ideas as to what this is? Thanks Smitty

Response:

I believe that is a little fan motor that blows air over a climate control temperature sensor.  I have the same thing in my ‘94 Intrepid.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My new to me 95 Concorde has a sound that seems to come from the dash that sounds like a small electric motor running when I open the door to get in. It seems to go away when I start it. Any ideas as to what this is? Thanks Smitty

Response:

If I remember my 94 LHS correctly the intake for the auto climate control sensor is near the glove box and turns on whenever car door open.  By the way it is an excellent system and far better than the one in my 2001 Avalon. In fact people complain about the Lexus system too.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My new to me 95 Concorde has a sound that seems to come from the dash that sounds like a small electric motor running when I open the door to get in. It seems to go away when I start it. Any ideas as to what this is? Thanks Smitty

Response: